Parkz News Dreamworld posts losses and writes off $75 million in value, Ardent Leisure safety chairman resigns

[Parkz News]

Dreamworld posts losses and writes off $75 million in value, Ardent Leisure safety chairman resigns

Preliminary results for the 2018 yesterday are out and Dreamworld flounders for the second year in a row, with owners Ardent Leisure wiping $75 million from the theme park's value.

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[Xexon]

At this point I wouldn’t be surprised in the slightest to see them close, they’re not a charity and if they’re not profitable, there’s no point opening their doors. 

[wikiverse]

How long are they going to blame their failures on TRR, instead of the fact that they are a poorly planned and poorly run park with boring and unreliable rides?

There are better parks with better rides, better water slides, better animals, and better experiences.

Dreamworld's unwavering commitment to relics TOT, Wipeout, RHLR and HWSW seem more like a desperate attempt to cling to the nostalgia of when the park was in its prime and wasn't a confused mess of cheap, mediocre 'thrill' rides dumped into any available piece of land. 

People don't hold that nostalgia. Dreamworld is not Disney and anyone under the age of 30 is too young to remember any of those rides being new and exciting at an age when they would have been able to ride them.

Young people - the people that you want coming to your park - don't care about how 'classic' RHLR is, they only know that WWF is better.  They don't care about how 'iconic' Wipeout is, they care if it is open and can actually make it through a complete cycle instead of just rocking them side to side for a few minutes.  They don't care that TOT2 launches you backward, if you can get a faster and better launch on SE.  And the sure as hell don't care about a rickety and painful old steel coaster made by a company that went bankrupt in 2001 - when they can ride a brand new Hypercoaster, and a rickety old Inverted coaster at a different park for the same price.

The TRR incident is not the reason people aren't returning to Dreamworld.  In my opinion, when they closed for several months, people (like me) realised that we didn't really miss it when it was closed, and when it reopened there really wasn't anything interesting or exciting worth going back for.

There still isn't.  And that's the problem.

 

[red dragin]

8 minutes ago, wikiverse said:

 In my opinion, when they closed for several months, people (like me) realised that we didn't really miss it when it was closed, and when it reopened there really wasn't anything interesting or exciting worth going back for.

There still isn't.  And that's the problem.

 

Agreed.

There is nothing there, aside from showing the kids the tigers, that attracts us back. And with Aus Zoo annual passes, we can do that closer to home anyway.

[New display name]

1 hour ago, wikiverse said:

How long are they going to blame their failures on TRR,

Until it's not true anymore.

1 hour ago, wikiverse said:

People don't hold that nostalgia. Dreamworld is not Disney and anyone under the age of 30 is too young to remember any of those rides being new and exciting at an age when they would have been able to ride them.

So, your saying when the mine ride final fell nobody cared because I remember an outcry that DW didn't keep it going.

1 hour ago, wikiverse said:

The TRR incident is not the reason people aren't returning to Dreamworld.

TRR is the reason numbers down.   If what you are saying is true, then all the people who have stopped going to DW because it's a mouldy old rag would now be at MW and SW which both have flashy new rides.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Skeeta

[Levithian]

Is that another 75 million to go with the 90 million that was gone within 6 months of the accident?

I'd like to revise my post I made back then that said it would be a long way to fall before the land is worth more than the park. Just roughly, theres over 120 million dollars in real estate potential given a plot of land that size. It must be teetering close to the line where it's starting to look like a prospect to carve it up and whack a housing estate on it. Wonder how many developers are going to start circling.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Levithian

[New display name]

We still haven’t learnt what Ardent are intending to do with the excess land.  I believe it was at least a year ago Ardent engaged a Town Planner.

[Slick]

I reckon both @wikiverse & @Skeeta are correct in their own way. Simply put - Dreamworld has way more on offer for young families than Village's whole offering and it's why it's been able to hang on for as long as it has. On the other hand, Movie World's teen/adult offering is an order of magnitude better than Dreamworld's.

Dreamworld became the country's best tourist attraction because for the first ten years of its life John Longhurst paid extraordinary attention to detail and quality and the place had pride in delivering once in a lifetime memories. The next ten years my generation thought it was the place to be because the thrill rides were actually world class. Skip forward twenty years, John's legacy has been literally bulldozed to bits and the ageing thrill rides that were built in the 90's are still mainly the poster child for competing with things like the Hypercoaster.

[Levithian]

Yeah, but that was in reference to developing the land with a new retail/hotel precinct, not for housing. Besides which, 25 hectares is only about 60 acres,  at best you're only going to be able to build on maybe half of that once developed, any developer would want the whole thing, not just part of it. It's the difference between 300 lots or maybe 1000.

 

[New display name]

7 minutes ago, Levithian said:

Yeah, but that was in reference to developing the land with a new retail/hotel precinct, not for housing. Besides which, 25 hectares is only about 60 acres,  at best you're only going to be able to build on maybe half of that once developed, any developer would want the whole thing, not just part of it. It's the difference between 300 lots or maybe 1000.

 

I don't believe housing was ruled out, but it would be a hard sell.  Ardent only wanted to get a report to increase the value of the land in a developer’s mind.  (Look at this land in my left hand, currently you can only build a theme park on it.  Look at the land in my right hand, this is how the land could be developed the future.   Now let’s forget about my left hand and set an asking price based on my right hand).  Ardent couldn’t give a crap if Mr Wi Tu Lo built a Laundromat on the excess land or Mr Ho Lee Fuk built a hotel.  Ardent want to tell you the excess land is premium land and they want a premium price.

[pushbutton]

1 hour ago, Skeeta said:

Until it's not true anymore.

So, your saying when the mine ride final fell nobody cared because I remember an outcry that DW didn't keep it going.

TRR is the reason numbers down.   If what you are saying is true, then all the people who have stopped going to DW because it's a mouldy old rag would now be at MW and SW which both have flashy new rides.

Sea World has a flashy new ride?

[red dragin]

Lot 2 & Lot 3 Dreamworld Parkway are land valued by the State Government at $10,500,000 each. They are two blocks ~27,000 square meters near the roundabout on the way into the Dreamworld carpark. Lot 103 Whitewater way, which covers WhitewaterWorld, Dreamworld, the gum tree leaf farm and a bit up near the Foxwell Rd/Whitewater Way roundabout, plus the creek, is 510,000 square meters. It has no land value listed. Ballpark it off the above and it is worth $195,000,000. It would be more as the percentage of creek is much lower. So at least $210 million, unimproved (ie nothing on it) land value.

This link might work to show you what I mean. http://cityplanmaps.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/CityPlan/index.html?search=124887

The three Lot's combined, sold for $108 mill in 1998 to Ardent. That price would include the rides and structures. It was 72 hectares then. It has been since been subdivided (the bit on Foxwell Rd at the railway side) and is now 55 hectares in size.

[New display name]

48 minutes ago, red dragin said:

Lot 2 & Lot 3 Dreamworld Parkway are land valued by the State Government at $10,500,000 each. They are two blocks ~27,000 square meters near the roundabout on the way into the Dreamworld carpark. Lot 103 Whitewater way, which covers WhitewaterWorld, Dreamworld, the gum tree leaf farm and a bit up near the Foxwell Rd/Whitewater Way roundabout, plus the creek, is 510,000 square meters. It has no land value listed. Ballpark it off the above and it is worth $195,000,000. It would be more as the percentage of creek is much lower. So at least $210 million, unimproved (ie nothing on it) land value.

This link might work to show you what I mean. http://cityplanmaps.goldcoast.qld.gov.au/CityPlan/index.html?search=124887

The three Lot's combined, sold for $108 mill in 1998 to Ardent. That price would include the rides and structures. It was 72 hectares then. It has been since been subdivided (the bit on Foxwell Rd at the railway side) and is now 55 hectares in size.

You can't go by your numbers. 

The creek you talk about is not a creek but part of Gold Coast TIDAL waterways.  TIDAL being the key word.  When Ardent went to sell it last time the Queensland Government wanted to take ownership of the TIDAL waterway and I believe 10m each side at no cost to the Government. Using Google Earth, the length of the waterway is over 1km long which means if the Government took ownership of the waterway Ardent could forgo 200000sqm of current land ownership.   

The new boundary line next to the waterway as you see it now was not the Ardent’s first option when they sold the last parcel of land.   The original parcel of land that was originally up for sale is outlined by my red line.  When the Government requested Ardent surrender the land Ardent changed the boundary line not to include the waterway.  Note: now the new boundary doesn’t come within 10m of the waterway I marked in blue.  If Ardent went to sell any land containing the waterway the Government would come into play again.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Skeeta

[XxMrYoshixX]

If Ardent don't do something with Dreamworld quickly enough, I can see the park closing its doors by the end of the decade. Even with the Flying Theatre to open later this year, the problem with Dreamworld is its dependence on old thrill rides to bring the crowds in, and the "Nostalgia" brought with these rides, which is practically nonexistent. Dreamworld isn't Disney or LPS. They've rebranded Tower of Terror as some sort of "space simulator" now which I don't get.  This complacency has been a problem for at least the last 7-8 years. As they say, 'complacency is a disease'.

Rebuilding from an accident that has diminished your reputation is best responded to by making capex spending, not literally sitting there and doing absolutely nothing as they have done in the last 18 months. It's been nearly two years since the TRRR incident happened. You can't blame that for low crowd numbers anymore. What you can blame is inept management that have struggled to bring guests back to the park, particularly in the teen market where Dreamworld are vast outmatched by all the other parks. MW has three great coasters. Dreamworld have none, Tower of Terror could have been one but the park in true Ardent fashion decided to cheap out on maintenance. 

It's an absolute shame that Ardent is only waking up to the signs now by building the Flying Theatre and promising a dark ride that I'm not even sure will be even built. But the damage has already been done. The fissures are starting to show now. The only way that Dreamworld can ever possibly bounce back is if Ardent sell it.

Edited August 1, 2018 by XxMrYoshixX

[New display name]

4 minutes ago, XxMrYoshixX said:

You can't blame that for low crowd numbers anymore.

Yes, you can because before the accident DW was a dump and DW was having its biggest years.  The car park was full, and the queues were long.   The only thing that has changed is the accident. 

People thought this place looks like shit but DW safety would be AAA.  Now people know they should've judged this book by its cover.

100% DW needs a full rebuild and cosmetic surgery to incite people back into the park.  What are you blaming MW low numbers on @XxMrYoshixX?

 

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

Dreamworld need this, Dreamworld need that, Dreamworld can't do anything with what the incident created, the park will never recover fully and it's in a state where they need an absolute fortune to revamp the park through refurbishments and new attractions and whatever. In their current financial state, that's impossible. Their only source of a major money boost would be the land but at this rate they will still take a loss when they sell that land because they are still putting money into Dreamworld and its future

[red dragin]

@Skeeta would the land value $$ on Lot 2 & 3 account for the tidal Creek? That is, does the $10.5 million only price the actual land sellable? Or the total lot?

[Levithian]

I thought the blocks closer to the roundabout were sold previously? What they continued to own ran through the big brother house treking back towards the station and town center?

Ignore the land value. That is unimproved and has no real regard for market influences, ie a massive shopping center being built and the whole area quickly turning into a huge housing estate all the way to pimpama. Itll be sought after as there are three big developers already in the area. 

The unused land was quoted as 25ha when they were floating the idea of redevelopment. That leaves 35ha remaining which consists of the parks for 60ha total? 

Take note though, regardless of how much land you have, you cant turn it all into housing. Roads, verges, infrastructure/services and parks simply stop that from happening. 1/3's used to be generous, but people are content to buy 300-400 sq m blocks now, so its more like 50% now. Big houses, tiny blocks and living in your neighbours pocket starting at under $400,000. Living the dream.

Edited August 1, 2018 by Levithian

[Rivals]

I feel like they need to close for 3-5months, to clean everything up, fix all the rides and replace parts that need replacing, give the park some TLC so like repainting HSWS and maybe a new ride or two, then open the doors back up and all the rides will be running better then ever and the park will look better then ever

 

they could also give some of the rides a refurbishment, like replacing the gondala on the cloor to the same gondala Goliath has at adventure world and maybe even giving the giant drop a new station and new gondalas similar to Lex Luther Drop Of Doom and those rides will be better then ever is well

[Flynn_Smith]

1 hour ago, Rivals said:

I feel like they need to close for 3-5months, to clean everything up, fix all the rides and replace parts that need replacing, give the park some TLC so like repainting HSWS and maybe a new ride or two, then open the doors back up and all the rides will be running better then ever and the park will look better then ever

 

they could also give some of the rides a refurbishment, like replacing the gondala on the cloor to the same gondala Goliath has at adventure world and maybe even giving the giant drop a new station and new gondalas similar to Lex Luther Drop Of Doom and those rides will be better then ever is well

The 'Cloor' doesn't need a new gondola as far as i'm aware?! They don't have enough money to simply close for 3-5 months. It's not as simple as you may think it is. They also don't have enough money to repaint the entire HWSW*, while also adding a new 'ride or two'. What is the point of changing the Giant Drop gondolas*? 

[Whombex]

6 hours ago, Levithian said:

Yeah, but that was in reference to developing the land with a new retail/hotel precinct, not for housing. Besides which, 25 hectares is only about 60 acres,  at best you're only going to be able to build on maybe half of that once developed, any developer would want the whole thing, not just part of it. It's the difference between 300 lots or maybe 1000.

 

It's quite easy to see it sliced up into a residential estate. Oran Park, a motor racing circuit in South Sydney, was bought by developers and made into an estate. As a token gesture, some streets were named after famous drivers. I can see that being done with Dreamworld. Thunderbolt Chase, Billabong Crescent, Rocky Hollow Road, Eureka Street...

[Rivals]

1 hour ago, Flynn_Smith said:

The 'Cloor' doesn't need a new gondola as far as i'm aware?! They don't have enough money to simply close for 3-5 months. It's not as simple as you may think it is. They also don't have enough money to repaint the entire HWSW*, while also adding a new 'ride or two'. What is the point of changing the Giant Drop gondolas*? 

They dont have to do it now but it would help the park out, i have noticed the claws gondola is starting to get a bit rusty and it would give riders a more freedom like sensation, with the giant drop they dont need to but it could give the same sensation of being more free. If they save up they could also repain the whole hotwheels, the paint is starting to wear off and it is starting to rust a lot

[Brad2912]

“If they save up”. 

They are bleeding money, and the claw (which is just fine) and the paint on HWSW would be the least of their worries if they infect has money to splash. Neither of those “improvements” would bring a single extra soul into the park 

[New display name]

15 hours ago, red dragin said:

@Skeeta would the land value $$ on Lot 2 & 3 account for the tidal Creek? That is, does the $10.5 million only price the actual land sellable? Or the total lot?

I don't know I'm not a Town Planner.  I only know what happened the last time Ardent tried to sell the land.

15 hours ago, Levithian said:

I thought the blocks closer to the roundabout were sold previously? What they continued to own ran through the big brother house treking back towards the station and town center?

Flip what you just said and you would be right.

The 2 RP lots 2 & 3 is Ardent land.  The 2 SP lots 102 & 103 was created when Ardent split the land for sale.  If you look at my Google Earth image you will notice the new owner has already cleared the land (Lot 102).

A bit of useless information but when WWW was going to be a "thing" and stage 3 was in the pipework Lot 3 was approved as an overflow car park.  Ardent went as far as clearing the large trees.  When you drive past next time you may notice a clearing with small regrowth.