Steel Taipan Construction - Dreamworld Mack launched roller coaster

[T-bone]

Joz, in reference to the important animal attractions and them not understanding how important they are, what are you referring to?

[joz]

I've not heard anything that worries me in terms of animal welfare or anything like that, just want to get that sorted. I've just heard it said that there doesn't seem to be much value placed on the animal attractions and their role within the park, like they don't seem to ,'Get it'. While I've heard this from a couple places now, I'm still not really at liberty to really go deep into it and explore it, and I'm not offended if people go with 'He's talking out his arse unless he's going to reveal sources or what exactly he's heard'.

[StingRay]

I am sure they do understand. It is like Seaworld. What is more important. The animals or the rides. Everyone is going to have a different opinion. That's fine. I have not heard of any animal welfare issues at all.

See 2016 was bad. But everyone forgets about the companies before Ardent. Ardent did not do the best job. They'll admit it. But at least they started to run it like a business and not a charity like it used to be (my opinion) with second-hand rides or simply no direction.

So on that front, I see change. I know many people have been let go and that will affect the enthusiast community. But many theme parks over the years have let people go and no one bats an eye. VRTP did that a few years ago and it seemed the norm for some reason. Maybe it is because of COVID that everyone is on edge. But Ardent (DW) have not been the only theme park/amusement park to have to downsize and cut cost.

If animals are being mistreated etc I am sure the relevant authorities would be looking into such a case. Now I highly doubt this to be the case personally but I will sit and wait for some hard evidence before I draw any conclusion.

Right now some people are upset and hot-headed and possibly saying things out of anger if anything. We've all been guilty of doing that at least one time in our lives.

[joz]

2 things:

 

1. Animals are not being mistreated, I made sure to mention that FIRST in my previous post, and I'll say it first again in this post.

 

They (DW) don't grasp how important the animals are in the mix that is the park, and this is a recent thing to have happened. That's the allegation. Again, can't provide evidence or really go into it, so I don't mind or care if you don't believe me.

 

2. Ardent is what Macquarie Leisure became. It's pretty much the same company that's been running the park for basically the past 20 years. They can ABSOLUTELY get fucked.

 

If you think that sentiment is based exclusively off of 50 people getting sacked I think you've missed the past 20 years of mismanagement at a Corperate level. I'm not going to carry on and say I hate everything that they've done at DW in that time, but I will say that the state the park is in now is a direct result of chronic under investment over the long term by Ardent leisure, which came about because they were more focused on Main Event. They didn't seem to really care what happened to DW so long as it was giving them a steady pile of cash to fund ME. So yeah, they can properly fuck off. Gary tried to make a go of it? Sure, but I suspect he under estimated how badly they'd fucked the place, and it's not a different company just because it's got a couple new board members.

[StingRay]

OK. So same company.

Sure the last 20 has been shit. But maybe the public is also the blame. Wanting a cheaper product with cheaper tickets for the past ten years at least. I don't always pay attention to the big parks. I usually like to pay attention to the little ones. They invest but if it takes ten years to invest then so be it. Usually due to low attendance etc.

Dreamworld has been taken down the wrong road by multiple people for a long time. Anyone can make a quick buck. To make a profit is the hard part. IP contracts seem to be on little money, Cheap ticket sales, no major experiences all of those lead to a place that has been neglected for sure. I understand how people can say "Twelve months of change means shit" and I have heard similar sentiments mentioned face to face or on the internet.

You know what, those people are indeed correct. A person or a company tho should be given the chance to change. Even if you do not like them/it. 2016 was terrible. We know. But I don't hear many people bang on about the dodgy back door dealings and possible gangland wars or the insurance payout that LPS management wanted resulting in that strategy.

 

My point is people change and so do cultures. I don't see people on my visit to LPS go "I'm going to burn to death today" or "Fuck management they want to kill me".

Yes, its facts and the past always hurts. But I feel even tho so many things have been done wrong they can somehow make a right. Maybe I think like this because it's within my nature. It's the kind of person I am to not back down on a challenge when others decide to walk away.

COVID has ruined so many business and lives. I am sure management was on the right track (pardon the pun) in buying the new coaster. Then the world stopped.

We don't even know how VRTP will pull through this either. They had an impending sale. No one knows if that will be going ahead now.

I get the whole "fuck them" attitude. My personal opinion is I don't want to have that attitude yet. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

10 hours ago, StingRay said:

I think it is smart keeping the place closed. Many won't agree but if a company is struggling its best to minimise the debt.

See, I have to disagree. Sure, their off peak trading wasn't profitable before covid based on Richard's stats, so opening in off peak saves them money? sure - but they're also not making any. And staying closed, and having no more promise of a reopening than some vague 'before the holidays' doesn't give people confidence to plan a trip and spend their money in the peak season. If they don't have established uptime prior to September holidays, you can write those holidays off too.

They're receiving subsidised wages right now, many staff will still be working every day - especially in the animal areas. When they do reopen they'll have to have all the necessary distancing signage and such in place, and they've now had longer than VRTP to get that sorted.

The only possible, logical reason not to reopen now is a maintenance backlog on key attractions - but yet again, they've now had more time than VRTP to get that sorted out, and many of Village's attractions were up yesterday. Opening with even half a park of attractions right now establishes that 'business as usual' is back on the table, and they'll start getting visitors again.

As soon as they do that, money will start coming back - something that they sorely need right now.

[rappa]

I believe Dreamworld is an asset to the community and should be saved by the government, same for SkyPoint. 
 

However Ardent should not get a cent of that in terms of bailout. I feel something like QIC should be buying out ardent at bottom dollar and then leasing the park back to a competent operator at a pittance until they turn it around. 
 

That’s my thoughts anyway. 

[red dragin]

Just now, rappa said:

I believe Dreamworld is an asset to the community and should be saved by the government, same for SkyPoint. 
 

However Ardent should not get a cent of that in terms of bailout. I feel something like QIC should be buying out ardent at bottom dollar and then leasing the park back to a competent operator at a pittance until they turn it around. 

If it comes up for sale, that's not a bad idea if QIC think it will work financially.

[Levithian]

10 hours ago, StingRay said:

So on that front, I see change. I know many people have been let go and that will affect the enthusiast community. But many theme parks over the years have let people go and no one bats an eye. VRTP did that a few years ago and it seemed the norm for some reason. Maybe it is because of COVID that everyone is on edge. But Ardent (DW) have not been the only theme park/amusement park to have to downsize and cut cost.
 

The problem is village can go to banks and capital partners and request a loan. Even though their figures arent great either, it just basically means they'll pay more in interest, but they have a lot of equity in the company just in terms of value of the holdings, ie each business adds up to being worth a fair amount of money, so while it means the company will be further in debt, they'll get the money if they need it. The share offering is way under realistic value of the company if you want to use it as an example, with the near atomic bomb that covid has been, a capital firm still thought enough of the company in these terrible times to offer them a buyout to nearly half a billion dollars. Even if your company has debts to 300 million, you can look at profitable divisions and see the result (and return) of securing capital to fall back on when needed.

Ardent... well, they sold off pretty much all their capital in the US because the company was going backwards. In Australia they sold off what remaining capital they had in things like AMF bowling centers too. So it puts the company in a position where they don't have a lot of tangible assets and they want to borrow money to recovery a struggling business that has been written down in value each year since the accident. Don't forget the legal issues still haven't been resolved yet either. So what are they borrowing against? You could argue they have no goodwill and the company still hasn't recovered so you have no cash reserves from trading, so anyone lending them money is basically running the risk of becoming a creditor if they fail. That's essentially the same with everyone else that borrows money, but lenders don't like risk, not unless that risk is calculated to work in their favour (ie they lend money, they step in and negotiate the outright purchase of the business when the loan gets called in and the company has to default). The risk lendering dreamworld must be huge, possibly so large that nobody will offer them any credit. So it means Ardent are in the position when their biggest asset doesn't offer any equity to secure the loan which makes it difficult to drum up another 100,000,000 - 150,000,000 to cover their COVID losses and get the redevelopment back on track. 

You could end up with a situation where all these things happening within the last 5 years has completely sunk the company and the only way out is for someone to buy them out, possibly renegotiate some of the debts they have and have enough capital behind them to rescue the business. That largely depends on if someone big enough thinks there is a long term investment to return the park to the 400+ million it was worth prior to the accident and even if the company has fallen so far they are close to insolvency. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Levithian

[StingRay]

5 hours ago, AlexB said:

See, I have to disagree. Sure, their off peak trading wasn't profitable before covid based on Richard's stats, so opening in off peak saves them money? sure - but they're also not making any. And staying closed, and having no more promise of a reopening than some vague 'before the holidays' doesn't give people confidence to plan a trip and spend their money in the peak season. If they don't have established uptime prior to September holidays, you can write those holidays off too.

As soon as they do that, money will start coming back - something that they sorely need right now.

You know I respect your opinion and you are right. Without money, you cant make money. This is a company that really needs to be making it.

I know the hole vague 'before the holidays' gives no confidence at all. So the consumer market will be like 'well that's odd'. I can only think they could be behind on maintenance or that are undertaking improvement works not noticeable from the car park. I am just as frustrated as everyone else. Yes, I support the park but even I wonder what is really going on. 

September holidays will be interesting. It is hard to even think that far ahead as the current issues south of the QLD border are worsening by the hour.

[mba2012]

I've forgotten if this has been brought up at all or not, but if Dreamworld ends up not building this coaster, how likely would it be that Village might pick it up cheaply? Do coasters in this kind of situation often end up going for much less than the price they were sold to the original park at? And presumably whoever picks it up would have to pay shipping costs as well, so MW/SW would be saving some money there. 

While it wouldn't be as exciting as other possibilities, it would still be a pretty solid addition to either Movie World or Sea World.

[rappa]

Let’s put Aussie world on the map!

[Rexillium]

11 hours ago, mba2012 said:

I've forgotten if this has been brought up at all or not, but if Dreamworld ends up not building this coaster, how likely would it be that Village might pick it up cheaply? Do coasters in this kind of situation often end up going for much less than the price they were sold to the original park at? And presumably whoever picks it up would have to pay shipping costs as well, so MW/SW would be saving some money there. 

While it wouldn't be as exciting as other possibilities, it would still be a pretty solid addition to either Movie World or Sea World.

MW is landlocked so not possible in the first place unless they want an early demo of AA (I still have hope for AA), SW has enough construction going on that they wouldn't bother.

 

9 hours ago, rappa said:

Let’s put Aussie world on the map!

Aussie world just got SX360, plus covid shutdown I don't think they'd be a financially viable option.

In this global climate I'm doubtful if they'd be able to sell it. Not with how parks around the world don't know what their income is gonna be for the foreseeable future. I'd think they would more likely try to slowly build it if they couldn't build it in one go. E.g. we'll get the footers in this year, in another 6months the structures up, another 6 months after that coaster track installed (keep decorations very last or just ditch them) though doing it that way I would imagine be more expensive but if you haven't got the cash and can't sell it....

Edited July 17, 2020 by Rexillium

[Gazza]

17 minutes ago, Rexillium said:

Aussie world just got SX360, plus covid shutdown I don't think they'd be a financially viable option.

He sure showed you rappa.

[Tim Dasco]

10 hours ago, rappa said:

Let’s put Aussie world on the map!

Nah send it to Adventure World, saves on international shipping.. 😜

[StingRay]

2 minutes ago, Tim Dasco said:

Nah send it to Adventure World

Never heard of her.

[Baconjack]

14 hours ago, mba2012 said:

I've forgotten if this has been brought up at all or not, but if Dreamworld ends up not building this coaster, how likely would it be that Village might pick it up cheaply? Do coasters in this kind of situation often end up going for much less than the price they were sold to the original park at? And presumably whoever picks it up would have to pay shipping costs as well, so MW/SW would be saving some money there. 

While it wouldn't be as exciting as other possibilities, it would still be a pretty solid addition to either Movie World or Sea World.

Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhh... no.

Let's have a think about it.

WnW can be excluded for obvious reasons. As for SW, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to build this, however they are going to be short on land after Leviathan is built. MW is a bit more tricky. I think its too close of an experience to Superman however the triple launch and inversions does provide at least some degree of differentiation. At the moment though, MW is landlocked so the only way it could go in is by ripping out a ride such as AA (which is definitely a likely possibility at this point).

More likely than not if it is sold, its going overseas to a park in China, Vietnam or Thailand. Much less likely, one of our small local parks such as Adventure World or Aussie World buy it and put themselves on the map, but a ride like this I feel is outside of either park's financial resources especially after being strained by the pandemic.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Baconjack

[LunaParkFan]

Ardent Leisure is already being crippled by debt. Chances are Dreamworld is going to be sold, hopefully someone who actually knows and cares about the industry will buy it up and Dreamworld can finally be back to the theme park it was in it's heyday. Ardent Leisure has done horribly as their stock prices continue to plummet.

[Brad2912]

2 hours ago, LunaParkFan said:

Ardent Leisure is already being crippled by debt. Chances are Dreamworld is going to be sold, hopefully someone who actually knows and cares about the industry will buy it up and Dreamworld can finally be back to the theme park it was in it's heyday. Ardent Leisure has done horribly as their stock prices continue to plummet.

If they are selling it, it’s likely going to be to a property developer with plans to put 2000 houses on the land... 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

On 17/07/2020 at 5:37 PM, Brad2912 said:

If they are selling it, it’s likely going to be to a property developer with plans to put 2000 houses on the land... 

That would require cooperation from the government given zoning and what not. They may not wish to lose the tourism drawcard.

Unlike Wonderland, which was a standalone park in the middle of a swath of industrial and rural land available for expansion, Dreamworld is fairly closely surrounded by commercial operation and housing, but its the northern tourism anchor for the gold coast, which a lot of businesses rely on.

If there were no other choice, sure - but if another park operator \ investor wanted to continue to operate the park in some form, I'm fairly confident the government would be favourable to that.

[Naazon]

Not just 'tourism' but literally all levels of tourism, Local, Domestic and International in a wide range of demographics.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

doesn't "tourism" cover all that?

[Naazon]

Tourism is a generic overarching term. It's a good idea to outline the levels and wide reach to show importance in supporting your discussion point.

[joz]

Sometimes. Sometimes being concise is good too.

[Retardent]

Occasionally I'll search through tender websites for theme park projects and yesterday's search at work had delivered some treasure.

Here is what is worth noting:

This is what the queue line and station looks like. It would appear they are going with a snake skeleton shade structure.

Exit Path.

There will be 2 tunnels.

This is the modern entrance sign is going next to Sky Voyager in Main Street.

They will be cutting and filling a sizeable amount of the coaster's site. As a result there will be a large, imposing retaining wall on the Giant Drop side.

A look at the station structure. It looks the same as Rivals or Green Lantern.

Ramp up to station.

An overview of the site. I do not know how this will integrate with Buzzsaw.

There is a lot of mentions of the name "Steel Taipan" in the documents, which must be the name they are going to use. When you go to the Australian Trade Mark Search website (https://search.ipaustralia.gov.au/trademarks/search/quick/result?q=ardent+leisure) you can see they have trademarked that name already. If the trademarks are anything to go by, you would also assume that Sidewinder may be renamed GoldCoaster (or The Gold Coaster or something like that) once when it opens again.

There is a lot of PDF files in the tender that were cool to check out including Mack PDF files. Happy to upload them somewhere or send them to Parkz to upload if you all are interested to look at the tender further. And before anyone rages about leaks these files are easily available on the tender site and those names are found on the public Aussie trademark website.