Sky Voyager Discussion

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

2 hours ago, pushbutton said:

For 13 months, not 12, including Skypoint observation deck, and with a  $20 Westfield gift card. 

You don't get any of that at Movie World! 

No 20 dollar gift card. It’s a special offer with dreamworld

[liz.wis]

2 hours ago, pushbutton said:

and this comment is in the discussion about the most exciting thing to happen at Dreamworld in many years. 

I guess your family just don't enjoy theme parks! 

 

That's hardly fair, I don't think I'm the only person that's a bit disillusioned with the direction of Dreamworld in recent years.

[pushbutton]

25 minutes ago, Gold Coast Amusement Force said:

No 20 dollar gift card. It’s a special offer with dreamworld

and Westfield.

[T-bone]

I will say your comment to Liz was a tad rude Push, you ain’t no angel yourself now.

Let me apologise for Push @liz.wis, he’s the town drunk.

Seeing this building come closer and closer to completion, it really just looks like they pulled the facade design straight from what was planned for the south bank Brisbane attraction before it fell into the oblivion. 

It would fit right in at Southbank..

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

1 hour ago, pushbutton said:

and Westfield.

Mate, you can’t get a special pass renewal deal at Westfield. 

[Brad2912]

7 minutes ago, Gold Coast Amusement Force said:

Mate, you can’t get a special pass renewal deal at Westfield. 

Yeah, you can. I was literally there 3 hours ago. 

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

4 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

Yeah, you can. I was literally there 3 hours ago. 

For 80 dollars? How would you go about telling them to sell you the pass for a discounted rate because you’re a previous season pass holder.

Edited December 15, 2018 by Gold Coast Amusement Force

[pushbutton]

3 hours ago, T-bone said:

I will say your comment to Liz was a tad rude Push, you ain’t no angel yourself now.

Let me apologise for Push @liz.wis, he’s the town drunk.

Seeing this building come closer and closer to completion, it really just looks like they pulled the facade design straight from what was planned for the south bank Brisbane attraction before it fell into the oblivion. 

It would fit right in at Southbank..

I have not been rude to anyone except for one person who was extremely rude to me! 

[Jdude95]

And Liz

[pushbutton]

Well if that's what Liz considers rude she'd better stay away from this forum. It gets a whole lot more rude than that!

[T-bone]

Dude 2 wrongs don't make a right, I thought you were better than that Push. What you said was extremely rude and you should apologize.

Keeping on topic, thanks for the photos Push (see, being nice wasn't that hard!) whilst the ride appears to be coming together, and we have all shared our opinions on the outside, its the experience that counts, and I hope they have got it just right. Fingers crossed.

[pushbutton]

Ok. Liz.if I said something that you took offence to, I'm sorry!  Certainly wasn't my intention. 

[rappa]

I don’t think it matters what Disney’s buildings look like. 

More that Longhurst’s vision is being destroyed. 

Or what the theme of the ride is. 

 

Whats pretty undisputabke is that is one friken ugly damn building!

 

And I have to strongly disagree that DW was successful before it killed people, it wasn’t as dire as now but they could barely afford to keep funding what they had, let alone build anything new. 

[New display name]

54 minutes ago, djrappa said:

And I have to strongly disagree that DW was successful before it killed people, it wasn’t as dire as now but they could barely afford to keep funding what they had, let alone build anything new. 

Really? because DW had a profit of 43 million for 2016 up 30% from the year before.  

[westical]

10 minutes ago, Skeeta said:

Really? because DW had a profit of 43 million for 2016 up 30% from the year before.  

Source?

[New display name]

Ketchup please.

 

[Jdude95]

I thought you were more of a mustard guy?

[westical]

17 minutes ago, Skeeta said:

Ketchup please.

 

Fake news. 

[Jamberoo Fan]

1 hour ago, Skeeta said:

Really? because DW had a profit of 43 million for 2016 up 30% from the year before.

A 'successful' park does not have to be one that solely makes a profit.

For the purposes of expanding the park, a profit would be great but when did DW last expand? Probably just over a decade ago when Whitewater World was built. The only thing Ardent has been expanding in the past decade is Main Event.

The problem with relying simply on the financial status to determine 'success' is that the revenue (and profit) could be coming from the same visitors/sources all the time (like annual passholders who spend on food and beverage or upcharges).

Whilst you're talking about 2015/2016 finances, I discussed this problem back in August in relation to the 2017/2018 attendance figures of DW:

On 23/08/2018 at 7:55 PM, Jamberoo Fan said:

I sometimes wonder about the attendance figures because it isn't made clear if it takes into account repeat visits from passholders. The presentation slides stated that DW + SkyPoint have 250,000 passholders:

Quote

Finished the year with over 250,000 loyal passholders, utilising their benefit of unlimited access.

Based on the current attendance figures, if only passholders visit DW + Skypoint, they would visit on average 6 or 7 times per year. So, do passholders actually visit 6 or 7 times per year? And if they do and the attendance figure does take into account repeat visits from passholders, then that means only 250,000 people visit DW + Skypoint per year and they likely only visit from the Gold Coast-Tweed Heads region. If all passholders are from the Gold Coast-Tweed Heads region, then that means 40% of the Gold Coast-Tweed Heads population has a DW + SkyPoint pass.

The park's capacity is 10,000 and based on the attendance figures in FY16, they get around 6600 people per day on average. Now they get around 4540 people per day on average. Is that reflected with the amount of people actually seen in the park? Because if it is really 250,000 people per year currently, that is equal to 685 people per day on average (likely to be 1020 people per day on average prior to the incident).

There needs to be an additional criteria than just 'making a profit' to determine a 'successful' park.

For me, that additional criteria is bringing in constantly new visitors whilst keeping all previous visitors loyal. For example, visitors that leave the park happy wanting to return at the next available opportunity (loyal visitors) and visitors who haven't visited before or didn't find previous offerings interesting finding a new offering worthy of visiting now (new visitors).

Consequently, if this is achieved, you're more likely to reach capacity each day and you know the park is 'successful' because profit is made, attendance is increasing, there's always something new & people are always leaving happy. The only negative I could think of for this is having to close the park's entry gates due to reaching capacity.

A good case study on why profit alone isn't a determination of a theme park's success is Wet 'n' Wild Sydney. Sold last year after making it's 1st ever loss. It made a profit every year prior to then (albeit a lower profit than the previous year each year) but was the park a 'successful' park during those years of profit? No.

When it opened, the park had so many problems that it made a lot of it's original visitors leave as 'not loyal'. Every year, this problem occurred even though they fixed some of the problems over the years. And no major new attraction has opened since it opened in 2013 (unless you count dinosaur statues & Nickelodeon theming as 'major new attractions') so there was no reason to bring the non-loyal visitors back to show them that the park has improved (if it has improved). Consequently, attendance continued to decline causing profit to lower which resulted in the inevitable loss and selling of the park to another theme park operator.

A theme park's success is based on quality not profit.

Edited December 16, 2018 by Jamberoo Fan

[New display name]

If you need a lesson in Google I believe @Slick holds weekly classes @westical.  

[westical]

Dreamworld didn’t make anything close to $43m profit by the way. 

[RossL]

31 minutes ago, westical said:

Dreamworld didn’t make anything close to $43m profit by the way. 

Ardent did.  Dreamworld was a significant percentage of that.  Want to restate it a different way?

[westical]

4 minutes ago, RossL said:

Ardent did.  Dreamworld was a significant percentage of that.  Want to restate it a different way?

I hope Skeeta doesn’t work in finance?

[RossL]

8 minutes ago, westical said:

I hope Skeeta doesn’t work in finance?

Well, what are you claiming they made?

[westical]

They don't provide sufficient info for an exact amount so I'll have to make a bunch of assumptions.

Theme Parks EBITDA was $34,725k.

Skypoint was about 9% of Revenue, so let's drop EBITDA by 9% to $31,600k.

Corporate costs ($15,144k) are given as a group total. For simplicity let's use a % of Revenue (in this case 2.2%). Theme Parks Revenue was $107,582k, so * 0.91 * 0.022 = $2,154k. Revised EBITDA $29,446k.

On the same group basis, Depreciation was 6.9% of Revenue. So $107,582k * 0.91 * 0.069 = $6,755k. EBIT therefore $22,691k.

Doing the same with Finance Costs, was also about 2.2% of Revenue. So take off another $2,154k, for a NPBT of $20,537k.

There's a bunch of extraordinary items and it's difficult to establish which pertain to Dreamworld. So we'll run with a pre-exceptional figure.

For tax a simple calc would be 30%, so $20,537k * 0.7 = NPAT $14,376k.

Or using % of Revenue again, NPAT $19.3m.

 

So best guess, $14m to $20m, more than half what Skeeta said. Depreciation and Finance Costs are the big items that can vary the figure significantly. But either way, it's considerably less than $34.7m, let alone $43.0m.

Should also point out Theme Parks EBITDA "only" increased 8.5% on the prior year.

You could also assume that profits were inflated at Dreamworld because they were underfunding maintenance of rides...

Edited December 16, 2018 by westical