New bins in Wild West Falls queue

[rappa]

@AlexB

Man sometime you just sound like such a wanker... and sometimes is maybe being generous...

 

I am/was one of the hugest critics of what happened with Scooby. It was a travesty that it sat open for so long as a dark warehouse, and yes the 'next gen' stuff is a joke. My point was they SPENT the money, they didn't just leave it like Dreamworld did, and are spending again because management have seen it's not up to scratch. 

You complaints are really quite small nit pics, two lighting issues, hardly make something a complete pile of shit. I'm not passionate about something I'm involved in, I didn't build the theming for Scooby, I'm simply saying if you cry wolf and say that something that is pretty much good is a complete pile of shit, how would anyone listen to you when you have a genuine critique.

 

As for Wild West... dunno where you get this idea that every single staff member in the park is some kind of dumb asshat but did you perhaps think that photo was taken on one of the biggest, hottest days of the year at the park, and normally no bin is required there, but after all that mess was dumped they added one. I know no more than you do, but I don't jump to a conclusion that everyone is a lazy dumb ass. We have no proof that mess existed a day before that photo was taken, so how do we know the park didn't see it the same time we did? How do we know it wasn't cleaned up 5mins after that photo was taken?

 

I strongly suggest you just stop visiting any Australian parks altogether because it's clear they do nothing bad aggravate you and hold you in contempt anyway.

Edited January 15, 2020 by djrappa

[Park Addict 93]

My 2 cents is that the recent changes/additions to the disco room turn it back into a "must ride".

Can other areas be improved, certainly but the ride is the best it has been for a while, the disco room is better than it was prior to the removal of all the theming.

 

[Brad2912]

37 minutes ago, joz said:

The rubbish looks like it's in the overflow queue which normally doesn't get used though?

Was main queue line, final turn before you head thru the room that used to have a preshow video 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

2 hours ago, djrappa said:

You complaints are really quite small nit pics, two lighting issues, hardly make something a complete pile of shit.

You agreed the projection spaces were shit. You then said everything was back as it was. I pointed out things that weren't back as they were. combined, those things plus the projections, if I haven't covered 100% of what's in the ghost train section, it's pretty damn close to it.

The queue house is still 'empty warehouse' - the firepots where the queue enters the narrow hallway are broken, the fountain isn't fountaining, nor is it fogging\misting\steaming. hell, one of the lights that light the gargoyles is currently floating upside down. The station lighting is constant, but i'll buy that one as fire safety, but there's no lightning cracks and accompanying sound effects, and the windows on the opposite side of the station no longer flicker with lightning either. there is tremendous sound bleed from the effects in the ghost train section coming into the station which never used to happen, presumably because the station used to have much louder ambient noise like wind and lightning that are now missing.

You can call it nitpicks, and in isolation, each one of them is. But small hills make mountains, and yes - from the outdoor queue tape right up to the reverse drop at the top of the elevator, its still a pile of shit. I agreed it wasn't a steaming one didn't i?

Disco room is looking much better. i'd have loved the original green lasers bouncing off the mirrors, but i get that the original laser design isn't easily replicated, and what's there is looking much better than what it was 12 months ago. the 'final drop' room is nice (I miss the fakeout laser drop, but what can you do) and the Tiki screen in the brake run approaching the exit station and associated paraphernalia is good too - so yes, from the reverse drop to unload looks great, and load to elevator looks shit.

...so it's half a pile of shit? can we meet in the middle?

I'm certainly not crying wolf. This is genuine critique. fine, it might be insignificant in your eye, but perhaps that sort of attitude is why MW's standards have slipped? because nobody cares about the small stuff and they think guests shouldn't care either? I'm not trying to be argumentative or antagonistic - i genuinely care, and I remember a time when the park cared about things like taking down the christmas lights. preserving the illusions that a 'movie world' was supposed to create.
 

[rappa]

Id argue that the rose coloured glasses version of Scooby is one that hasn't existed for at least 10 years, I'm not making excuses for that. But what I'm saying is what is there is better than it has been in 10 years, and from what I've seen it's still being improved. 

But if as soon as the park makes one improvement all they get back is "yeah but its not improved ENOUGH so stuff you, its still crap" there isn't much incentive for them to keep going is there.

It's kind of like the person who stops buying live export meat or caged eggs but still get's screamed at by an extremest Vegan that they are still a murderer, they are kinda "well stuff you then, I care nothing for your cause".

 

I'm not saying the park is perfect Disney, I'm saying in the last 6 months I've seen remarkable improvement so they should be encouraged not put down for this.

[T-bone]

Someone once said to me that theme parks should be about the little details, and it’s those parks that do fuss over the details that make it worth its weight in gold.

For a ride like Scooby which had so much detail when it opened, but it was built with the philosophy that they will put detail in that not every guest will notice, not because they have to, but because it’s the right thing to do in order to deliver an outstanding experience. The attitude seems to have changed though, and it’s all about what they don’t have to do in order to get by. That is a 100% attitude shift and is what we have seen over the last 15 years at the village parks.

Now clearly I’m an outsider in the village world, So my views are clearly that as a guest.

On the queue line issue of not being fully used, let’s accept that it is at a QFES recommendation. That said though, isn’t it the parks job to find a solution to ensure the standard of product is exceeded whilst meeting the QFES recommendations? Shutting half the queue because QFES said so is akin to putting cages and removing caves on a log ride because Shit and Perry decided so. 

[Jdude95]

I have talked to many friends who are outside of the enthusiast community and still call rivals "the joker coaster" They asked me what was happening with Scooby not long ago because it's been all over the place the last few years. One of their biggest concerns was that they had to queue outside because half of the inside is blocked off with no clear reasoning. They asked a staff member and were simply told "we can't use that side anymore" and that's all. Even though the ride has received some of it's themeing back after being a shell for so long, I still get asked if it's closing because it's so inconsistent and nowhere near what it used to be. So it's definitely not  just "entitled enthusiasts wearing rose glasses" who are noticing these things. I don't think these people could be any more part of the general public if they tried.

[rappa]

How does anyone here think the park can actually start to change?

Numerous comments but I'll address @T-bone directly because it's an easy one to pick out...

"15 years of changing attitude at Village" So scooby is 17 years old. That means that for 2 years it was good and ever since no one has cared about the details... Let's say that's true, I have no interest in debating that, we all know the park had some shit years of management. 

So how then do they go about a change of attitude? SURELY no one here expects to walk into Movie World tomorrow and see the entire park transformed to the most amazing thing they have in their head overnight? They clearly need to attack each item one at a time. But if they start doing that and they still get this kind of attitude that they are shit and don't care about their guests how can they win?

 

I say they DO care about guests and they DO care about the little things. We've already started to see little detail and changes come back in to the park:

-Better crowd control and access at White Christmas

-The small task of moving the bins for the parade to allow better viewing

-Starting the parade at western town so more people can see the thing

-Pacing on the parade floats to keep things happening and not just for a select few

-Removal of the awful tables in Main Street plaza

-Adding new lighting to scooby disco room to start to improve on the previous mistakes in the next gen makeover

-A range of different lighting shows in scooby disco room so that guests get to experience a variation on repeat rides

-Actually setting the lighting to the sound track in the disco room so that its a real show 

*the last two points are exactly the small detail that's being asked for

-Keeping the park open to 6:30pm in the Summer for holiday crowds

-Individual uniform for Showcase staff and not just the recycled Roxy one 

*again another small detail

 

And all that above list is only things I've SEEN as a GUEST in December and January.

 

 

And as for the outdoor queue, that queue has always been in affect during busy summer crowds, people have always queued outside, so is it the end of the world? Are we angry at Tape or are we angry at queuing outside because if it's the latter then that is stupid.

 

 

All of this applies to Dreamworld as well. If that management is to start making changes how can they do that if not by degrees at a time? What is the point of them even starting if they are just going to also be told they hate all guests and don't care?

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

17 minutes ago, Jdude95 said:

One of their biggest concerns was that they had to queue outside because half of the inside is blocked off with no clear reasoning.

And this is probably a big part of my feelings on this - sure, QFES says evacuating a queue that big with all its chains and barriers is a death trap. Ok. sad, but ok.

Shutter it. Sad, but ok. But - instead of your staff saying "we can't use that side anymore" or pretending it doesn't exist when it's neon pink and visible from the highway *cough* - why not the age-old theme park adage of "this area has been closed to make way for an exciting new attraction!" (it worked for Vikings Revenge).

They don't even need a big concept art, or have the idea of what its going to be - just acknowledge that you've closed it, and you aren't pretending it isn't there.

Here's some ideas (and to be clear, i'm not saying the park should do any or all of them, i'm just coming up with ideas to promote discussion).

• Start by making the dividing wall permanent. Make it fit in with the existing "themeing" (or what's left) and fix up the rest - the fountain, the firepots.
• Bring back the castle themed walls. or don't. but do something. there's plenty of theme pieces left over from the movie currently rotting outside calypso you could put up against the walls with a nice spotlight and a fact card about the prop, where in the movie it was used - maybe even a still frame from the film showing the prop in the background of a shot with one of the main characters. Make it WB Showcase - Scooby Doo edition.
• Put up signage about the other side of the room (if you don't make the dividing wall floor to ceiling). Guests will remember the room used to be bigger and wonder why. acknowledge it and explain its 'making way for an exciting new attraction' - make sure your staff running the entrance know this story too so they can give a similar story instead of 'i don't know, we just can't use it' - then... (and here's the real kicker...)
• COME UP WITH A USE FOR THAT SPACE. Have a brainstorming session with the boffins and decision makers in the company to come up with short term uses and long term plans....
• Open the wall facing Villains Unleashed and turn it into a merch store.
• Put a green screen photo centre in there.
• Move the intencity arcade machines over there so you can use the intencity showbuilding for mazes permanently without pissing people off.
• install a new (or a couple) flat rides that fit within the building envelope
• move some kiddie rides in there, and buy a couple cheap ones from zamperla with suitable themes for the kids, enabling you to have an offering at the park while you COMPLETELY GUT AND REFIT WB KIDS WORLD.

(All of these ideas would involve an appropriate redesign, and potentially additional exits or fire escapes, and would involve the necessary consultation with fire safety advisors to ensure compliance with state fire safety codes and regulations)

I know this all needs money. some ideas don't need a lot, while others involve a larger expansion, but anything has to be better than "we can't use that side anymore for fire safety reasons".

[rappa]

If they put up signs saying "Closed to make way for a new attraction" every person on here would bitch about that and call them out.

 

Rebuilding that space permanently would cost 100s of thousands of dollars. Would anyone want that spent rather than say a big return on Wild West? Of course not.

 

I mean get real, all of those above ideas range from comical at best to down right silly at worst.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

1 minute ago, djrappa said:

Are we angry at Tape or are we angry at queuing outside because if it's the latter then that is stupid.

I was pretty clear it was the tape I took issue with. Tensa barriers or portable fence panels or anything else above ground level would have been preferred - and they have plenty of rope barrier pole things they've used before for main street parades, that anything besides tape wouldn't have cost much.

My main issue with "tape" queues, is there's no delineation, and queue jumping occurs easily. i've seen it happen, and it pisses me off, but rather than leave the queue, find a cast member, i stand, i watch it happen, and i fume. because a few fence panels or tensa barriers would have made it that little bit harder or more obvious that someone was cutting line.

4 minutes ago, djrappa said:

I say they DO care about guests and they DO care about the little things. We've already started to see little detail and changes come back in to the park:

Ok, olive branch here. You're right - there is improvement in the detail. I can't deny that... but:

5 minutes ago, djrappa said:

if they start doing that and they still get this kind of attitude that they are shit and don't care about their guests how can they win?

They keep going. they take on the feedback of the nit picks and the small details that irritate their guests, and they keep going. Instead of taking the attitude of "fuck this, why bother. we improved scooby and they're still complaining" - they can go "ok, these things are irritating our guests like the bins in the parade and the parade pacing, what can we get with quick wins?"

there's lots of little things they aren't doing, that would cost them nothing to fix up. if we aren't pointing them out, they aren't getting fixed. If we'd all got to our knees for scooby and praised them for doing something with 'warehouse the ride' - would they have invested anything further into fixing it up to the current standard? of course not.

but if we keep complaining, and we keep seeing things fixed, THAT is what turns the attitude around - not the other way round. Take a look back at the adventure world discussions with Mark. Things like Abyss not being mown because they thought overgrown suited the theme. lots of people (myself included) commented that it made it look like crap. he mowed it. it looked great. well done adventure world. because we saw we were being listened to, as opposed to being made to seem ungrateful because better spacing of a parade float wasn't enough.

[rappa]

Ladies and Gentleman, from the Gold Standard of theme parks who care about the tinniest detail of guests... happens EVERY DAY

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

3 minutes ago, djrappa said:

If they put up signs saying "Closed to make way for a new attraction" every person on here would bitch about that and call them out.

Probably, but its still a damn sight better than "we can't use that anymore"

4 minutes ago, djrappa said:

Rebuilding that space permanently would cost 100s of thousands of dollars. Would anyone want that spent rather than say a big return on Wild West? Of course not.

A renovation to the Gremlins corridor on the western side, to make the emergency exit doors into an actual entrance, and a stack of arcade machines you've already got on site, plus some electrical overhead racks is sub $30k. As I mentioned, There's short term uses, and long term plans. with the right plan, budget forecasting and concepts, it could be really well done, and 100k spent a year or two down the track on a modest but engaging attraction would be worth it IMO.

 

6 minutes ago, djrappa said:

I mean get real, all of those above ideas range from comical at best to down right silly at worst.

I'll agree some were a little comical - but since for example they already do green screen photography in two different locations - i figured it was a good fit, and building a mini kiddie land in there to enable them to revamp WB kids - its a concept previously suggested for the other half of LTRR sound stage, so can't be that far fetched.

2 minutes ago, djrappa said:

Ladies and Gentleman, from the Gold Standard of theme parks who care about the tinniest detail of guests... happens EVERY DAY

How many cast members are managing it when it's in use?

[rappa]

Well one you decided to put a dollar figure on something you know NOTHING about, and no you're wrong, any sort of work in parks these days costs a fortune.

 

But then you decided it's ok for them to have tape because you assume they have cast members there... so I'm done with this 'discussion' now, it really has gotten comical.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

11 minutes ago, AlexB said:

My main issue with "tape" queues, is there's no delineation, and queue jumping occurs easily. i've seen it happen, and it pisses me off, but rather than leave the queue, find a cast member, i stand, i watch it happen, and i fume. because a few fence panels or tensa barriers would have made it that little bit harder or more obvious that someone was cutting line.

 

3 minutes ago, djrappa said:

But then you decided it's ok for them to have tape because you assume they have cast members there

Yeah because if someone is cutting, the cast should see it?

if they can't put up an actual barrier of seatbelt strap between two poles, then the least they can do is have a cast member to manage the queue \ greet the guests.

if they aren't going to shell out for another minimum wage student to manage the queue, then yes, tape isn't acceptable and they should use a fucking tensa barrier.

[Zanstabar]

Isn't this a case where the middle way might be the answer? SDSCNG has received some attention since the relaunch which has been great to see.  The Disco Room looks better than I have ever seen and small adjustments have been made to the first few scenes. Yet, there are still issues with the experience. Waiting in the hot sun isn't very pleasant, especially when you enter to realise that half the space is partially unused. The queue and station atmosphere are shadows of their former selves. The ride is improving and evolving, which is great to see, but there is still more to go. 

Call me the King of Kumbaya, but I think we should call it how it is and acknowledge that it's great to see change and what can still be improved. This is a cycle that will never end; There will always be a way to push it further. Should we all take a bite of the feedback sandwich?

[Brad2912]

4 rides on Scooby this afternoon and I can say, having seen what seemed to be unique/different lighting sequences on each ride, that the disco room itself hasn’t been better than it is now 

[webslave]

It wouldn't be Parkz if we didn't have people lording insider information over others, only contributing it when they think their authority might be challenged, would it?