Proposed Big Dipper Luna Park Sydney Circa 1984

[Jobe]

I remember seeing this article in the paper when i was just 10 years old and reading it with fascination and wonder. Of course the plans did not eventuate but I do remember that the coaster plans were by Arrow Huss. 

I just wanted to share this with all of you as this article has been in my brain for 30 + years and to finally  see a digital copy is great. Given that there was fierce resident opposition even then this did not progress beyond pre planning stages but it certainly does present a huge "Oh what might have been" moment.

 

The link to the article is HERE

[Slick]

Wow, I had no idea. Sick find there @Jobe - there's a real Great American Scream Machine vibe to that proposal. There's also some tiny hints of what would eventually become the Big Dipper turned Cyclone/Sidewinder/??? that we all know today.

[StingRay]

1 hour ago, Jobe said:

I remember seeing this article in the paper when i was just 10 years old and reading it with fascination and wonder. Of course the plans did not eventuate but I do remember that the coaster plans were by Arrow Huss. 

I just wanted to share this with all of you as this article has been in my brain for 30 + years and to finally  see a digital copy is great. Given that there was fierce resident opposition even then this did not progress beyond pre planning stages but it certainly does present a huge "Oh what might have been" moment.

 

The link to the article is HERE

Amazing. I heard about this. Never believed it tho as no evidence could be found. You, sir, have outdone yourself.

[Coasterlife]

I feel like this video had to be here for some reason but most of you might have seen this already

 

[StingRay]

2 minutes ago, Coasterlife said:

I feel like this video had to be here for some reason but most of you might have seen this already

 

This footage was used in a virtual simulator within the park for those not willing to ride the coaster. Hence why its production value ain't too bad (for its time). Although I'm lead to believe some parts might be missing from this footage.

[Coasterlife]

12 minutes ago, StingRay said:

This footage was used in a virtual simulator within the park for those not willing to ride the coaster. Hence why its production value ain't too bad (for its time). Although I'm lead to believe some parts might be missing from this footage.

Thanks for telling me more about the history of that video it seems slightly awkward the big dipper in luna park in my opinion it's probably because I wasn't born in that era but it would have been cool to experience as well as Wonderland Sydney

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Coasterlife

[StingRay]

2 minutes ago, Coasterlife said:

Thanks for telling me more about the history of that video it seems slightly awkward the big dipper in luna park in my opinion it's probably because I wasn't born in that era but it would have been cool to experience as well as Wonderland sydney

 

It does look awkward. Once you have ridden it at DW and you watch this video (having knowledge of LPS) you can tell it would have been thrilling (even tho the coaster is tame) especially going behind Coney Island and through the entrance arch.

[colonelbmx]

that ride was so much smoother in Sydney then the now cyclone/sidewinder at Dreamworld, 

I could never understand how one buys a unit overlooking a theme park with iconic views only to complain about the noise 

[rappa]

Because all the houses next to live music venues and airports were taken 😜

[Baconjack]

Wow. Had absolutely no idea this existed and I did some sleuthing on the small handful of historical newspaper archives I am subscribed to and found nothing else relating to this proposal at all whatsoever so this is all that exists.

At that time I think it was very ambitious for the park to basically build a coaster that took up the entire park. Judging by the layout and what is described in the article it is surprisingly quite resemblant of what is now Sidewinder, same manufacturer, inversions and elements.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Arrow would have re-worked quite a lot of this plan into what we got considering it would have been at an advanced stage at the time. Same core elements, the loop, dive loop, helix and overbanks in a smaller plot of land while being taller and faster.

Edited August 31, 2020 by Baconjack

[StingRay]

I was lucky to be involved with this park at one point during my working life. I heard the stories from very good people with park history that before the Big Dipper 2.0 another coaster was mooted to be built. But it never occurred.


Until Big Dipper 2.0. It was essentially the same coaster but make a little smaller. It all now lines up and makes sense. I never knew what some people meant by "the coaster that never occurred" but @Jobe has completely confirmed this now.

[Jobe]

On 31/08/2020 at 10:39 PM, colonelbmx said:

that ride was so much smoother in Sydney then the now cyclone/sidewinder at Dreamworld, 

I could never understand how one buys a unit overlooking a theme park with iconic views only to complain about the noise 

Spot on here mate. The Big Dipper was a hugely enjoyable experience at Luna Park. The way it swooped over the Midway and then flew beside the cliff face before seemingly ejecting itself behind Coney Island for the helix and sidewinder maneuver made for an exciting and thrilling ride which ( at the time ) was one of the best coaster experiences in the state. I can attest also to its smoothness here as well- the transitions didnt seem harsh and the ride ran nicely through all its course. I was disappointed when I rode it as Cyclone when it made its way to Dreamworld in the early 2000's- it didnt seem to really fit in to where it was positioned ( over an old carpark) - it just seemed to be plonked there without much thought. It DID look visually impressive at the time from the highway especially with the twin mega loops of the Thunderbolt just behind it ( with which it operated simultaneously for a short period). Nowadays I feel with the integration with White Water World it works that much better- it feels far more organic as it blends in with the waterpark and the slide tower.

I rode it last in January and yeah it was rough. This was the first time I have ridden it for a number of years and the first time I rode it with the newer trains. I found them to be an improvement over the old Arrow trains and the harnesses were certainly more comfortable than the previous clunky OTS Arrow restraints. The transitions were a bit bone jarring in a couple of places but overall I still enjoyed the ride and the experience. My son rode it with me for the first time ( it was his first Arrow looper and coaster) and he enjoyed it as well but of course it didnt stack up to the B&M's that we rode recently together in the States. I still have a lot of nostalgia for this ride though and I am grateful that it is still in existence to be ridden and enjoyed. As a coaster its far and away nowhere near the best on the Gold Coast but it is still an impressive and unique ride and I feel that it gets criticism that is extremely harsh without taking into account its positives as well. Looking forward to seeing the new name and refurb outcomes that are currently being enacted on the ride.

On 01/09/2020 at 1:38 AM, Baconjack said:

Wow. Had absolutely no idea this existed and I did some sleuthing on the small handful of historical newspaper archives I am subscribed to and found nothing else relating to this proposal at all whatsoever so this is all that exists.

I originally saw this article in another newspaper , presumably an affiliate Sydney paper, so i am guessing it was widely reported at the time. I do recall ( and It was a long time ago) that the article I saw had a different graphic and artist impression- I thought that I had saved this but if I did its looong gone.

 

On 01/09/2020 at 1:38 AM, Baconjack said:

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Arrow would have re-worked quite a lot of this plan into what we got considering it would have been at an advanced stage at the time. Same core elements, the loop, dive loop, helix and overbanks in a smaller plot of land while being taller and faster.

I am not to sure on this. I think that any resemblance from this ride the eventual Bid Dipper 2.0 became is just a function of the space they had to work with more than any real link to this coaster. Firstly at the time, Arrow was joined with Huss and the German manufacturer would have left their own stamp on the project. Secondly, given the considerable 11 year gap between this proposal and the steel Big Dipper I feel that they would have started from the ground up for the space that was provided. Any similarity I feel would be coincidence here.

Edited September 2, 2020 by Jobe

[Jobe]

Just as an aside its interesting to note that LPS request for a  DA for the placement of temporary amusements on the Lavender Green behind Coney Island has now been withdrawn.

This application drew quite a lot of criticism and protest from surrounding residents so its no surprise that LPS has decided to voluntarily withdraw this request and alter their plans.

What impact this has on their future plans is anyones guess but I always thought that this proposal was not a brilliant idea. 

[StingRay]

2 hours ago, Jobe said:

Just as an aside its interesting to note that LPS request for a  DA for the placement of temporary amusements on the Lavender Green behind Coney Island has now been withdrawn.

This application drew quite a lot of criticism and protest from surrounding residents so its no surprise that LPS has decided to voluntarily withdraw this request and alter their plans.

What impact this has on their future plans is anyones guess but I always thought that this proposal was not a brilliant idea. 

Oh, this is interesting. I know much opposition was against this. I don't believe the marquee located in the green actually gets used much anymore. It was meant to always remain as somewhat of green space for people.

I have only ever seen one ride utilise this area before the marquee called it home. That was the Coleman & Sons miniature railway back in possibly 2006 of the top of my head during the summer period.

[Yyosh]

On 31/08/2020 at 10:20 PM, StingRay said:

This footage was used in a virtual simulator within the park for those not willing to ride the coaster. Hence why its production value ain't too bad (for its time). Although I'm lead to believe some parts might be missing from this footage.

I'm pretty sure it was created for this tape. It has some great footage.

[StingRay]

3 hours ago, Yyosh said:

I'm pretty sure it was created for this tape. It has some great footage.

I never knew a whole show existed. I am lead to believe this footage was used in one of those old motion simulators (ride view only). So it is possible it that the footage was taken from this show. I have no idea how long the simulator lasted in the park tho.

Great find tho. Nice to see some construction pics.

[AheadMatthewawsome]

After finding out about this rediscoverd coaster. I recreated the coaster on Planet Coaster and is now available on the Steam Workshop. I also made an video which is inspired by the POV of the 1995 Big Dipper. If you want to see the video, this is the link: 

There is also an link to the workshop item in the pinned comment. I am sorry if it looks and sounds a bit of rough editing. I have only just started doing Da Vinci Resolve. And I might recreate it one day when I get better at it.

[Gazza]

Skip to 3:04 if you just want to see the POV.

[19Michael96]

Very interesting to see this after reading about the proposal in "Just For Fun". According to that, the coaster would've necessitated the removal of Coney Island so in a way, it's a good thing this never got off the ground.

[StingRay]

2 hours ago, 19Michael96 said:

Very interesting to see this after reading about the proposal in "Just For Fun". According to that, the coaster would've necessitated the removal of Coney Island so in a way, it's a good thing this never got off the ground.

Indeed that's true. Coney island was in a massive state of disrepair. So it very well could have been all destroyed. Thankfully that was not the case.

[AheadMatthewawsome]

Hi all, I’ve been reading the Just for Fun book I bought almost 6 years ago on one of my first trips to LPS. And I normally read the pictures instead of the words, the words in the book strain my eyes and put my brain in a frizzle. I remember the video that I made which I remade the coaster in Planet Coaster (you can see it above), and remember another Big Dipper proposal which didn’t pass. This coaster can be seen at Page 124. The book says: “In June 1994, as another reopening was planned for a traditional-style amusement park, there were ominous signs that the Big Dipper could be a stumbling block.” It would be more than a “stumbling block” with a coaster even taller than the one that was actually built! It also shows an old Ferris Wheel, Flying Saucer, and a Helter Skelter with a weird roller coaster going into it! I’m assuming that’s the Wild Mouse. And fireworks and weird black circles on the wall. Another reason to shut down the park! Artist’s Impressions are extraordinarily insane!
 

They also talked about on the same page for an expansion as a “stage 3”. It never happened, but what would have happened is “remove the railway storage and spur line for parkland, an amphitheatre, gallery and museum”. That might not have been so bad… “OI HIGHLINE, ANY CHANCE?”

Now we get to the juicy bit: “Plans for a massive Arrow Huss roller coaster
running the full length of the Park were made public in August 1984. The only catchwas that to fit the ride on the site, Coney Island would have to be demolished. Harbourside approached the Museum of
Applied Arts and Sciences to determine whether they would take the building. A report commissioned by the Department of
Public Works on the importance of Coney Island recommended its retention. The dominoes were beginning to fall.”

That’s available on page 118, it also includes a very funny cartoon about a young kid complaining to the government about the park! It also includes about relationships between Harbourside Amusements and Abe Saffron, don’t get me started! I said, don’t get me started! *drum beat*

Although there are a few discrepancies between the artist impression and what’s said in the book (because some artist impressions are dumb), it makes a connection…

 

 

 

[Yyosh]

I won't get too excited about that artist's impression because it isn't anything new sadly. It's actually not too far off what ended up being built for the 1995 reopening, and looks strikingly similar to a model which I believe was shown to Ted Hopkins before he passed away. The giant Big Dipper has an incredibly similar layout to the Arrow looper that was built, and the smaller coaster is just the Wild Mouse.

There's footage of it here at 52:34. Notice Spider originally being the Troika, Rotor's (ugly) facade and the massive fake mountain. I'd love to see full photos of this model but I've been unable to find anything more than this small clip from Spirit of the Carnival.