joz

Well just to pick up a couple of on topic points, I don't think it's strictly important to have a conservation theme in the dark ride. I feel like there's so much conservation stuff at Sea World that if you did more people would just tune out the message anyway, so you may as well just make it something fun, so long as it's not at odds with the conservation theme. That's what I tried to do with the dark ride I made, and it definitely should be a shooting dark ride, as the idea of turning it into basically a giant ticket game that you can also ride for free is kind of the whole point of having it. It's meant to get people into the arcade, but also be a revenue source. The theme of the coaster is also something that took a while to get down. The idea is that you're in a sea side port, and sailors are swapping stories about their encounters with Sea Monsters. Some old bugger says something like 'If I'm going to tell this story right, you're going to have to sit down' and then coaster. Yeah, it's pretty generic, but I don't think you really can do an elaborate theme with a big outdoor coaster and have it work. I'm open to other ideas for the theme though, and a deep Sea Exploration theme might work better with Jet Rescue near by. As presented, the whole thing isn't perfect. For one thing there's not enough shade, and there really needs to be another couple things on the Pier to give it some more atmosphere. The big coaster has a capacity of around 1000pph, which is very high, and the spinning coaster has a capacity around 550, which for a ride with mass appeal might be a little low. I think on balance though what has been presented is realistic, and would work well with the rest of the park.

RCTW is looking increasingly like the sort of thing that you see put on the crappy $20 table at EB games.

Awesome, thanks everyone for the answers!

That is a cool photo! I think there are carriages though, if you look to the right of the engineer's wrist that looks like the stroller carriage. On this subject, how many passenger cars does Dreamworld have these days? They used to have enough for 2 trains, but there was a photo that showed a pretty empty looking shed recently. Also does anyone else remember the freight cars you could ride in?

I think expansion of NICK Land would be so far down the track, that it would be folly to plan it out now. Basically see what Nick shows and rides come out in the next few years that seem like they would naturally go together. Same thing for flat rides. Suffice to say, I do think that the area near Jet Rescue should be home to most of the parks true 'Thrill rides', leaving the rest of the park at it's more subdued level. It's actually a really good question. As simple and cheap as it is, it's still a pretty expensive expansion. I think you'd have to split the capital over a few years to get it up, so a couple million one year on engineering and initial Earthworks, a couple the next year on infrastructure, more site prep and hardware acquisitions, and all go the third year to get the Pier, rides and outlets up and running Sans big coaster, which would come online a few years later. I think the big wigs would hesitate to spend the $30million plus to build the Pier and rides (Not even including Serpent's Fury!), so you'd want to try and spread it out so it's not as big a capex request. In the meantime, maybe keep the park ticking over with an addition to Castaway Bay, new Sea Lion and Dolphin Show, and a Nighttime Spectacular. The reason for the pier first is because I think the park needs a bit of filling in, and the Pier is 3 new rides, as well as a new area you can spend a large part of the day. The coaster is something the park needs, but it adds 90 seconds of activity to someone's day. The Pier would also be more cash flow positive than the coaster. Yeah it's totally possible to bring the Ski Show back! The back straight wasn't really used for much except for the run up to do jumps, but you can also do that by doing a lap of the island. It's just if there's a will to do it. Personally I'd like to see it make a return, but that's just my opinion. I think the hardest thing these days would be getting the talent, but I'm sure there's still some really good skiers out there. As for a Drop Ride, yeah look you're going up against Giant Drop, so it has to be something different, because you'll never win with height. Falcon's Fury (Dammit I totally ripped off that name without realizing!) I think would be a good choice. I do wonder about the price though, and I'd like to know more about how reliable the ride is in the next few years. Intamin rides have a bit of a reputation, and not always for being cheap or easy to maintain. Having said that I thought a Gyro Drop might be good, but it depends how tall you can go. I've mentioned this before, but in case you missed it, about 6 months, and had to learn 3D modeling in that time too! Also again thanks! That's kind of the struggle with a shooting Dark rides in general, and I promise you I went through this exact line of thinking when I was making it. First it was going to be a ride where you're riding 'Submarines', and you're shooting hooks or other things that might be bad for the environment, but that would be totally lame and skew too young. Also considered keeping the underwater thing, and going after Sea Monsters (kind of like Iron Reef at Knott's), but again it doesn't quite feel right, and shooting any Sea creature is really not in the spirit of Sea World, even if it is a monster. Grundy's in Surfers DID have a Ghost Train though, so I do kind of feel it's true to theme, even if it isn't strictly Sea themed. I feel like it's a pretty easy theme, you're helping save a castle that's being invaded by the supernatural. There's nothing to say the castle isn't beside the Sea either. It'd be pretty easy too, just put up a few paintings of a castle on a cliff, and play some crashing surf and storm sounds and the illusion is complete! Truth be told, the ride I designed for the video is very simple, and I think actual industry professionals would be able to come up with ways to make it actually good! It's sad that we live in a world where that is something you have to think about, but sadly it is. I must admit I didn't put much effort into solving the problem, but I agree that it is a problem that Perspex would be able to over come quite effectively. Thanks again for the awesome feedback! I'm blown away by how enthusiastic everyone is for the idea! @Slick said he wanted to see more screenshots, so why not! Since we've been doing crazy level of detail so far, I'll keep that going here with a bit of commentary for each screenshot Part of the vibe that I'm going for is of a local, kids welcome, bar. Ideally you want it to be the sort place that would become the bar of choice for local families on a weekend, and a relaxed welcome place for holiday makers. As part of getting the local crowd through the doors, a couple of pool tables, and probably also a few TVs with sports playing. The stairs in this picture aren't the main entry, but do lead to Grundy's, and in truth just break the room up and make it more interesting The popular dolphin viewing balcony gets an upgrade, and provides a shady retreat with 72 seats. Families wanting to be more in the action can grab a table on the pier itself. Again to encourage local trade, live bands add to the atmosphere on the weekends and during holidays. It'd also be cool to set up an international food festival style event during the day in this area, again to try and get that local market in, having fun and spending money. This is the side that faces NICK Land. It's meant to fit in with that 'Warehouse' look that the area currently has, and the ramp IS the main entrance. True to warehouse theme, underneath the Grundy's logo is the actual loading area for deliveries to the outlet/arcade. The white part of the building that sticks out on the left houses an elevator, to take food and bev products to the kitchen. A view looking at the loading area from inside Grundy's. The door to the right of the photo leads to storage area for Grundy's, as well as F&B. Corkscrew's old footprint, with a very bad recreation of Jet Rescue to give you an idea where we are. Note the amount of space for future rides. Serpent's Fury station and queue. Guests enter through the opening on the bottom right of screen, and first complete the outdoor switch backs. After they complete the first part of the queue, guests hire a free locker. This process is administered by the front entry host, and keeps things moving along in the station, because frankly Australian operations need all the help they can get. Incidentally, if the average group has 3 guests, and they share lockers, there are lockers here for 228 people. . The queue then goes over the station, and enters the building from the far side. This type of station design means that guests in line have a good view of the process before they go through it, again hopefully speeding up the loading/unloading process. There is also no dedicated unload station, this attraction would be ideally run by only 3 people. (Entry host, loader, unloader). Predictably, the exit ramp leads down into the gift shop at the exit On ride photos are displayed inside the shop, and inside the shop is also the other side of the lockers. Guests retrieve their money and belongings in the shop, and are straight away able to grab that impulse purchase of an on ride photo. Take that Superman shop! Any problems with the lockers on this side are seen to by the retail staff member. Again, this is going into excessive detail, but I guess I wanted to make the point that it's not a totally half baked idea, some serious thought went into this. If Village decide they want to use any of this, feel free. I'd be happy to consult any time, I'm pretty easy to get a hold of

Haha well spotted! It was always shown doing a Corkscrew over the monorail, so thought I should make it so that actually happens

Cheers for the feedback! I'll respond to all the various questions and whatnot, but a few general comments; 1. I've been working on it on and off for about 6 months, but in very erratic bursts, sometimes going a couple weeks without doing anything, and I also had to learn how to do 3D modelling during the process 2. I think a WOC show might be asking a bit much, it cost Disney an outrageous amount to build the infrastructure in a controlled environment. Sea World's lake is salt water, and tidal. It's also massive. I think a couple floating waltzing water barges placed around the island, fireworks, water screens, and a couple boats would probably be more cost effective, and also make for a better show. 3. The height of the ride is roughly on par with Storm, but it's not as visually intrusive. It's a tricky issue, but it seems with the current political climate it seems like something they could get through

OK, so I've been one for knocking and whining over most things that happen at the park for a while, so I thought for a change of pace, rather than pissing and moaning over everything that management do without having anything constructive to say, I'd chime in with my own suggestions. This is a long read, and honestly the video at the bottom sums it up pretty well if you can't be bothered reading, it's only worth reading if you like excessive detail. I feel I should also point out that this is borderline obsessive, and I'm actually much more normal in real life than you'd think just by judging from this post So, I started by looking at the creatures of the deep attraction, and what might replace that once its time is up. I quickly realized that any development would need either a large concrete wall, or to be elevated so the area can still operate during Jet Stunt Extreme. The obvious way to do that would be to theme it after one of those Pleasure Piers that are popular all over the world, but are curiously lacking in Australia. This creates a new themed area, that exposes people to something new, while also seeming familiar. That theme of combing new and old elements into something original also manifests itself in the replacement for Dockside, the Sea World Pier Bar and Restaurant. On the outside, its look is loosely based on the old 'Southport Pier (See above)', on the inside it's a slightly more modern, but still in an old school style. There are lots of photos of hard hat divers, skin divers, longboard surfers, and other sea related photos stretching back in time. The idea is that these photos were put up new, and we never taken down, giving the interior a more timeless feel. Downstairs is a massive arcade, a Gold Coast classic, Grundy's, named for the famous attraction in Surfers Paradise. Both the arcade and bar are placed as the Northern Entry to the pier, this should ensure good foot traffic, something Dockside Tavern in it's current state doesn't really enjoy, which does hurt it's revenue a lot compared to Dirty Harry's. The restaurant and bar is place between Sea World Pier, and the nearby Nick Land. The idea is parents of older kids (like 10 and over) would be able to relax at the bar, while the kids will explore the nearby rides and attractions without being too far away. This combination should be enough to encourage more visits and more spending out of VIP Pass holders, as well as creating a laid back ambiance for less frequent visitors. Outside on the pier is a gazebo that would house live music on weekends to add to the atmosphere of the area. Down stairs is Grundy's, and the draw card here (aside from the massive arcade) is 'Sir Reginald Grundy's Castle Defender'. Sir Reginald Grundy's Castle Defender is a shooting dark ride, on a slightly smaller scale than Justice League 3D, (and with no 3D screens and all the headaches they bring). It's a free attraction, that should hopefully draw people into the arcade, in a similar way that the dodgem cars draw people into Intensity at Movie World. The idea behind the arcade here is that it would work like Timezone in Surfers; people buy game cards pre loaded with cash that they can spend on games, and the more they load, the more perks they get. A further revenue raiser would be to allow people to swipe their card when they board the dark ride, this would take the score they make on the ride and convert it into prize tickets (eg 10,000 points = 1 ticket), effectively turning a free attraction into a revenue raiser, but doing so in such a way that wouldn't alienate other guests. It's also somewhat true to theme, the original Grundy's had a ghost train, hence the theme of skeletons in a castle that is shown in the video. The family friendly vibe continues across the water where a modest Ferris wheel takes up residence, roughly where the water fall now stands. It provides a great aerial view of the Dolphin pools, something that made the Skyway a popular attraction for so long. Balancing out the area with something a little more grown up, is the "Wild Surf" Spinning mouse Roller Coaster. The ride begins by taking a dive underneath the Pier, before coming back up through a hole, in the middle of the ride area. It's a short ride, not designed to be too challenging, but adult enough that even a thrill seeker would come off the ride satisfied with the experience. The rest of the pier is given over to a viewing area for Jet Stunt Extreme (and a potential new Nighttime Spectacular) on the main lake. A path also leads towards the east, which serves as an emergency exit, viewing area for a new thrill ride, and potentially as a path to a new Monorail station. A new Monorail station would allow the Pier to be opened early or late exclusively for resort guests, driving either an increase in yields at the resort, or occupancy. There is also room on the Pier to add another flat ride in the future to keep the area fresh. The aforementioned thrill ride would be "Serpent's Fury", a MACK launched coaster, which would actually have it's station next to Jet Rescue. Serpent's Fury would take up some (but importantly not all) of Corkscrew's old footprint, and would take on the role of signature thrill ride at the park, occupying the same role that Corkscrew did for 30 odd years. It's layout would leave room for new flat rides to be added near Jet Rescue, and the expansion of NICK Land. Because the Pier is 2 stories, it is space efficient, and creates other opportunities for development. For example, change rooms and a new filtration and pumps system for the Dolphin pools could be built under the pier near where the Endeavour Replica used to sit. This would allow the current change rooms to be demolished, leaving a decent sized plot of land next to the Seal Stadium that could house a new attraction or an expansion of the Dolphin pools. It's easy to see it taking more than a decade to use the land that this attraction opens up. All of this is to improve the park for guests, and improve financial results. As well as the Pier hopefully increasing overall attendance, the arcade and bar would both become important revenue streams, it's also not difficult or offensive to picture carnival games in such an environment, which could also add some extra revenue. The restaurant/bar would also make a more intimate function venue than anything else the park has, and is also wheelchair friendly. The new mix of attractions would help shake the unfortunate reputation that Sea World has these days amongst many of being 'the one you skip unless you have small kids' to being 'the one with the best mix of everything that's also really close to your hotel'. This isn't all to be built in one go either, it's too big and expensive. It would take a couple years to get it to the point it's at in the video (The Serpent's Fury alone would probably set the park back around $20million, easily swallowing a couple years worth of capex), but I think in the long run it'd be worth it. The theme park industry is a long game, and I think it's at it's best when ambitious things are done. Video included

^ Yeah that's kind of what I mean, it's both of those things. A big drawcard, and also too scary for people to be broadly appealing. To be clear I don't think it's in any danger of going anywhere, and nor should it be, just a few thoughts.

Giant Drop is a strange one. I think it's the ride that gives Dreamworld credibility in the thrills department, but it's so scary that people refuse to go on it. It's something that draws people to the park who have no intention of riding it. I think how intimidating it is and its location at the far end of the park is why it doesn't tend to attract a large queue. Normally I'd say that means it's unpopular but it really is the ride that makes Dreamworld stand out from the rest.

I've only been to Luna Park once, and I thought it was a nice enough little park. I'm now really annoyed at myself for not going into the Coney Island part, which looks like it's probably the highlight. Australia is an annoyingly litigious country, so you don't really get stuff like that here, to find there's a bit of lawyer unfriendly fun, somewhat under my nose, is a rather pleasant surprise! Great read as always!

First good looping coaster ? Yeah first triple loop roller coaster was their claim to fame with Corkscrew. I've never really thought about it, but given Thunderbolt was a double loop coaster and it opened a year or so earlier, it suddenly makes a ton of sense why they would have made going upside down 3 times such a big part of their promotion of Corkscrew. Thunderbolt was pretty ordinary, but it's hard to imagine how just how enticing it looked from the highway. Another thing it had going for it, is that it was a long ride, so it just looked like a massive, imposing, heap of track, particularly back in the days before there was anything else to really look at on the M1. 100% Gold Coast icon, up there with Grundy's, the image of the Corkscrew going under the monorail track, Lorikeets and the chairlift in Miami.

I have it in my head that Zumer was already an old second hand ride when Dreamworld opened, Viking's Revenge opened I think in about 78

Don't forget the Zumer (Puss in Boots swing) which is probably the oldest ride on the Gold Coast

If you want to see a video of a stopped ride just look at a photo, they're very similar

No, but the speed of the platform was easily adjustable, so when they built it they didn't have to get it spot on. Basically they built it, then someone watched some boats go round, adjusted the speed of the platform and went 'that should pretty much be right forever'

I miss the old Jamboree show. Good video though, there is footage of the original incarnation of the show floating around, but that's the first time I've seen the second version anywhere, and obviously it's the second version I'm more familiar with. Also, it closed about 16 years ago, so hands up anyone who had no idea that Dreamworld used to have a musical animatronic show?

It would certainly make it better. I think short of getting MACK to put spinning cars on it, it won't really make it work as a thrill ride, but a normal coaster train would at least turn it into a relatively thrilling family coaster. Maybe if the VR thing works it'd be a good coaster to try it on. For my taste, I'd rather see the area given over to a new themed land.

Haha there's a shocking twist

It's not an entirely without merit point, and maybe it would work having a second stroller bay at the far end. Im pessimistic purely because I've seen first hand how angry people get when asked to leave strollers behind, and you know that someone will take their stroller inside only to have a fit when they find out they have to take it out outside again. Yes the staff would explain it on entry, but people don't always listen, but again, I'm just being pessimistic lol Also I just remembered a silly little thing but I don't know if it's still a thing, so I'll phrase it as a question; is the justice league on ride photo still framed in such a way that the only thing in the frame that's not the guests or the ride car is a fire extinguisher?

I get what you mean, but how would that work though? Would everyone take their pram into the venue and then after they've found a seat then take it to the side that they think they'll want to exit on?

No, it's actually a bad ride. In every way a ride can be a bad ride, MDMC is. There are 2 things going for it, they are 1. The side cars. 2. The way loose articles are accommodated on a ride with seperate load and unload stations. That's the plus side, on the downside you have a slow moving queue, partly brought about by poor station design and partly by awful restraints, managing somehow to be unintuitive, uncomfortable, overly restrictive, unaccomodating, and a manual handling hazard for staff. The layout of the ride is poor. A lot of rides try to increase the sensation of speed by getting lower to the ground and having more intricate manoeuvres as the ride goes on. MDMC seems to get higher off the ground, so even with tighter turns it just has no speed to thrill you with in it's latter stages. What is its target market? Thrill seekers? Dreamworld say so, but launch and first turn aside, it just isn't thrilling. A family coaster? The height requirement is 130cm, one of the tallest in the park, which stops a lot of small kids from riding. It's clearly meant to be a thrill ride, it just didn't work out. The side cars somewhat negate this, but they aren't what the meat of the ride is supposed to be. Maybe it just fits into its surrounds so much that it adds to the ambience of the park? Not even. The coaster itself is largely hidden from view so it adds little Kinetic energy to the park, the themeing is at odds with the area it's in, and it takes up a massive amount of prime real estate with its spread out layout. Seriously, in every way that a ride can be a failure, MDMC manages to do it. That's why it's listed as people's least favourite.

It was a long time ago, but we do have photos of an Intamin coaster in that exact spot http://www.parkz.com.au/photo/721-Superman_Construction_Update/gallery/sort/oldest/location/ride-282/offset/42 You're welcome.

I was always going to waste my time with either this or RCTW, and given how awful that game looks I reckon I'll be pre-ordering Planet Coaster.

Are they ex dinosaur island dinos?