DaptoFunlandGuy

^What he said.

Bah to Firefox crashes. there goes my post. In a nutshell - it is an unreasonable expectation for a developer to constantly 'double check' to make sure their existing approvals cover what they are doing - if they have legal advice that says it does... and don't kid yourself - an organisation such as Brookfield Multiplex would have clearly reviewed their existing approvals documents and paid very handsomely for advice on whether new approvals were needed. Somewhere a corporate lawyer is getting his ass handed to him... but clearly - they would have "double checked" as you say with their legal team, and been satisfied with the response. If every developer had to do this several times for every development - every level of government would experience delays in their planning areas over having to process such multiple requests - blowing out approvals processes from months to decades causing economic growth to grind to a halt. Nobody is saying LPS did something wrong intentionally. THis is simply an 'oops'. This happens ALL THE TIME in construction and development when an administering body realises that something has been done in a way that should have received an extra rubber stamp.

This year's VIP pass was an increased price though only slightly - wasn't it?

Based on what? the fact that media outlets pounce on a shin graze to report major injuries? The Disney parks are the highest profile parks in the world, and media often blows things out of proportion. Their 'safety record' is actually pretty good when looked at on a 'per cap' basis. Making statements like that without any basis (especially when others know it is incorrect) is why you frequently get served. Jobe hasn't let you get away with anything regarding LPS - don't start on other parks - you will get the same treatment. A small fire was started in the scenic theming (nowhere near, and nothing to do with the actual ride function) after fallout from a firework in the nightly park fireworks landed amidst the artificial forest. The ride was quickly evacuated, fire crews attended to the fire, which lasted less than 20 minutes and did not spread to any part of the ride system. The ride re-opened 2 hours after it was e-stopped, following a full safety inspection. Robb Alvey at TPR was actually onboard the ride when the fire started. He was evacuated at the unload station and by all accounts the incident was handled extremely well. He reported many details 'as it happened' and felt the media response to the incident was blown completely out of proportion. I'm sure Disney imagineers kicked into overdrive to repair the theming and I doubt much if anything will be noticeable when the ride reopens today. The incident, whilst technically caused by the park (as it was their fireworks) couldn't really have been foreseen, wasn't caused by poor maintenance or poor operation, and i'm sure following the event, they will review their fireworks safety procedures. In Disneyland - the park doesn't run the fireworks if the weather is too windy to avoid fallout reaching delicate areas. (such as an entire forest in AdventureFrontierland). Fantasyland is shut down for the duration of the show, and there are many cast members safety crew within Fantasyland to spot any potential fire hazards as a result of fallout. No doubt following their safety review they will either set limits on Wind in the direction of the 7DMT, place spotters on the ride to observe fallout, or other safety measures to prevent this occurring again. A storm in a teacup, or more precisely - a campfire on the 7DMT.

Yeah - saying Thunderbolt should still be running because other coasters run 30+ years is like saying that your 1988 Hyundai Excel should still be running because you saw a 1908 Ford Model T on the highway the other day. Different quality of manufacture, as well as different maintenance arrangements make a big difference. Like the old saying 'they don't make them like they used to'. Riders of Thunderbolt in the year or two pre-closure would definitely disagree with you that thunderbolt was better than Cyclone. Cyclone isn't fantastic, but it's better than the shudder-n-jolt. For further examples of coasters that shouldn't be operating but are - take a look at the various TPR videos of the Manhattan Express rollercoaster at New York New York Hotel and Casino in Las Vegas. Enjoy Robb's astounding commentary on what should be considered a torture device.

I think Scooby is one of those weird beasts as far as filming goes - you take all your belongings with you, so a camera - in your bag or in your hand is still permitted on the ride. Can't imagine the footage would be very exciting though, given the dark aspect. Other coasters on the other hand do not permit you to take bags or loose articles on board, and therein would lie the problem of taking a camera on-ride.

Thanks for your views DisneyDoll. As I said earlier it is unlikely the park will have to remove it. Reading the article, it was LPS's view that their current planning arrangements meant they did not have to do a DA for construction of the hair raiser. Council have already said that while they disagree with how LPS have interpreted and applied those planning arrangements, they have accepted that this was the view LPS had. In other words - LPS did not believe they did anything wrong, and thought they had done all the right things. Council has stated they believe them. So if that were the case - why should they have 'made sure that all the DA's were signed before commencing construction' when it was there belief that one wasn't needed?

I'm sure that all things are taken into consideration - especially things such as the viability of the park to develop, and the previous court rulings on the rights of the residents who are complaining. Just because locals complain about development - doesn't mean the council will quash it if it is in the best interests of the community at large. As I've mentioned previously - my wife is construction administrator for Queensland's number 1 builder. A recent DA received several objections, and these are all taken into account by council when making their decision. In many cases this leads to certain conditions being placed on the developer. In the case of LPS - concerns over noise, for example, may require the park to install scream shields (anyone remember Maliboomer?) or set certain conditions as to the hours of operation. They could also force LPS to install a screen to block the ride from view - however most residents would probably prefer see a small white tower to a large blank wall. Whilst the council can technically refuse the DA, and require the park to remove it - it is my wife's experience that in these situations, unless the structure is defective, dangerous or otherwise unsafely constructed or operated - its very unlikely the council would make them remove it. *Sometimes it is better to ask forgiveness, than permission...

Yeah - I can imagine that since WWW sprang up around it, a winchback in the case of a valley or stall would be a lot more difficult if it got stuck somewhere around the slide towers.

Yes it does. Dreamworld hired on volunteers for a one-off film shoot. V8 Supercars hires on volunteers for one-off race events. Reanimated is a fan of V8 supercars So is Jake. So they're discussing V8 Supercars in terms of the gold coast event Dreamworld is also on the gold coast. Dreamworld also happens to have an attraction in Ocean Parade called V8 Supercars Redline So - does the discussion have ANYTHING to do with Dreamworld - yes it does - on several levels. Does it really matter on page 67, especially when numerous people have already pointed out (including myself twice) that there isn't really anything else 'on topic' to talk about, that people go off on tangents that are somewhat, although not really related? No. If we're going to start splitting off threads, then i'd like all 1,6734 posts sorted into threads based on whether they are: tail spin, wipeout, triple vortex, trains, coffee shop, other shops, annoying street performers, matters relating only to WWW (*and therefore not appropriate in a "dreamworld" thread), Screamworld (does anyone really care?) Videos and photos specifically posted by Slick Photos not uploaded directly to Parkz but hosted on external sites in breach of site policy Sarcastic replies to stupid questions (Actually we'll probably need two threads for those) Stupid Questions Questions asked more than 10 times (original question stays in thread on-topic) Unrelated SPAM Dreamworld Film shoots, and their similarities to the RSPCA, V8 Supercars and Emergency Service volunteers All replies posted by Reanimated If you can find a moderator willing to do that - then please - let's move the posts so they're all on topic. I think at this stage given the lack of response (and even participation in) these off-topic discussions by Richard, Joz, Gazza, Rappa and Flea, chances are nothing is changing... Perhaps we could alter the thread title to reflect it's current purpose? Maybe just add on "and associated waffling" to the end of it? Edit - forgot one: Coke, Pepsi and their associated fans, likes and dislikes amongst members. (Featuring Mountain Dew)

Actually - I do recall seeing the water dummies and the winch block in the station - perhaps they do load the water dummies into the train each day for testing... in which case the weight argument has merit. They should leave the dummies loaded into the train (maybe in the middle) on quiet days. Then it would always have the required weight...

"Persons with back or neck complaints, who have had recent surgery or illness, and expectant mothers SHOULD NOT RIDE" This is a typical warning posted on many rides i've seen round the world. I assume blackpool would be no different. Whether or not his condition contributed (I'm assuming it did given the thousands of others who successfully rode without complaint), he shouldn't have been on it due to the condition. The article also mentioned he was 'black and blue' which sounds less like a simple jarring, and more like he copped a few blows - the kind you'd receive if you perhaps stood up and copped a headchopper?

bovid? I think it's pretty crummy not running the ride without at least 10 people. You've paid your money to enter and you want to ride... cost cutting crap. And don't anyone suggest it's a weight thing - because you could have ten 12 year olds thin as rakes.... ....wait... bovid = bothered?

Absolutely, which is why I said their attendance figures are a shaky nail to hang your hat on.

I wasn't aware they had moved to scanners Skeet - I've had to have July-Dec off due to other commitments occurring in Brisbane this year. I can say our gate staff carry 'clickers' (similar to what some theme parks use on rides) and they keep a (somewhat unreliable) count of kids coming through the gate - these numbers are provided to V8SC daily and are added to the gate counts. As you say - you had free passes. These are still issued by the same ticketing authority and are counted just the same. The non-usage of free passes is even higher for obvious reasons - eg: if you weren't able to find someone to give them away to even if you did, they didn't end up using and hadn't planned to go. The cost of alcohol is no different to concession stands at other 'temporary' events where suppliers need to ship in trailers to serve from, cold rooms, ice, product and staff, and it is to be expected that you would pay more for a product out of a mobile vendor than you would from a local pub. Our parks charge upwards of $4.50 for a bottle of coke, and they have an established and reliable supply chain...

This may end up needing it's own thread if it continues, but attendance figures at the V8 events don't tell the whole story. First of all - I accept the figures you quote as being reliably obtained from V8 management. The same figure has been provided to numerous media outlets also... however there is one small problem with attendance figures provided by V8's - they're self serving. Every 'big event' loves to toot their own horn - but here are the flaws: Unlike our theme parks, where we have a barcoded, ticketed entry system at turnstiles (I don't know about anyone else but i've seen gate staff wave a big group through and then manually turn the turnstile after scanning each ticket to ensure an accurate count) - most events run by the V8s aren't turnstiled. It's just not feasible to rollout a turnstile system for a weekend. Larger events have multiple entry points. Gold coast has around 6 different gates. Bathurst you can enter the venue through no less than 3 different gates. You can also be 'on property' prior to lockdown with resident's passes. In Bathurst, people can also enter 'the mountain' by helicopter. Tickets aren't scanned by barcode readers - they are simply inspected by gate staff, and then hole punched in the appropriate spot on the ticket. Not all tickets have a barcode either... and guests of race teams and VIPs have cards that last the entire season... Which begs the question... how do they get their attendance counts? It's quite simple really - they do so by counting the number of valid tickets that grant entry to the event each day. It's far cheaper if you plan to go for the whole weekend to buy a three day pass than it is to buy two single day tickets... There are two points to make about the pricing: it is clear that Friday as an event day isn't valued by it's price alone - it is only an additional $5 to upgrade from a 2 to a 3 day pass. The single day ticket on friday is less than half the price of a single day satsun too. Most serious race fans want to enter the paddock. Seeing the workshops and garages behind the scenes, meeting the drivers, and also touring some stalls and stands that are only available in the paddock area means most people buy the paddock upgrade. You cannot get paddock access on single day tickets, so if you want to enter the paddock - you have to buy a three day pass. so when you have tickets such as these: ...they all count for Friday, Saturday and Sunday - regardless of whether they are used. The only way to know if they are used is to count the number of hole punch 'dots' are in the hole punches at the end of the day - but even if they did that - it would still be unreliable as mobility impaired persons are sometimes directed through different gates manned by security (who check, but don't hole punch tickets). So you take that figure, and then you add on every hard card that has been issued for that event (for sponsors, general media (not television crew), and guests of race teams), and then you add on the number of 'single day' tickets that were sold for that particular day as well - like these: ...and that is how you get your attendance figure for the day. Bathurst, Gold Coast and other 'street' events are also tricky - as EVERY resident needs a resident pass as well (even kids where children are chargeable) - so imagine the number of people in the high rises around surfers that are within the GC600 precinct that would hold a resident pass - and add that to the count as well. The only people who don't form part of the count are people who are there strictly for work purposes - caterers, cleaners, event officials, track officials, tow truck drivers, media crew such as camera guys and commentators etc. Unlike stadiums, where max capacity is known, and every seat is numbered - attendance at V8s can be a shaky nail to hang your hat on - especially when you see it for yourself, at every event, time and time again.

As I've made plain in this thread recently - I volunteer as a supervisor with the V8 Supercars volunteers. I've done Gold Coast, Ipswich, Townsville, Darwin, Bathurst and Sydney events over a number of years. I can speak with experience and authority that the Friday events receive far less attendance (as the main events are usually only in practice or qualifying) than the weekend events do. This is further impacted by many ticket holders having a thing called WORK on a Friday. I usually have (and usually need) fewer volunteers on the Friday for those reasons. Although this year was different - Ipswich usually makes it FREE ENTRY on Fridays to encourage more attendance at the event. ...and just as I finished typing this - Reanimated got in - cheers bud!

I'm sorry Yoshi - but I don't think your research is going to cut it. It's like reading up on Ocean Park in Hong Kong and saying you know all about it, and how it's better now than it was 10 years ago - without ever setting foot in the park. If you had been to the park even once, it might lend credence to your views, but I don't accept your 'first six years' statement. I visited the park on opening day. I went several times a year every year. I worked there. The first 15 years of the parks life was fantastic. It was only the last 4 where it really started to stagnate, and i'm sure most people could see the writing on the wall in the last two. Since this is the off topic topic, and to avoid a double post - TPR have now posted some onride and offride POV of the Circus Circus El Loco in Las Vegas. I must say it looks like a great addition to the little park, but by comparison i'm very happy with Green Lantern. http://youtu.be/n8ZDIF-Ni90

wrong forum.

Yoshi - i'm confused - you never saw the park, but you have such strong opinions of when it was good and when it wasn't - ie: "first 6 years" Space Probe wasn't the last attraction installed in the park, although it was the last good installation. Paramount didn't wan't Wonderland - it was on the other side of the world. The takeoverbuyout was risky enough as it was there was no way they would want to take it on, despite taking on Canada's Wonderland... BUT - even if they did, nothing suggests that Cedar would also have taken the same view, and they may also have not wanted it for similar reasons. It's like the whole sea world six flags Ohio debate - many people talk coulda, shoulda, woulda... but nobody knows what would have happened had things panned out differently. The park may have suffered just as badly by having owners based in the USA as it did having owners a puddle jump away in Malaysia.

It took you 30 minutes to get onto one of the park's newest attractions (and newest roller coaster) on the Friday before the Gold Coast 600? A day where most ticket holders aren't interested in seeing practice and exhibition races, parades of drivers and the like and go... 'well - we're in the gold coast - how about a theme park for the day?'... It's not Boxing day - but I would imagine the Friday pre-GC600 wouldn't exactly have been quiet. 30 minutes sounds quite reasonable.

^one only has to point to Valencia, California to know that they could build it in Lithgow or Bathurst and it would still work if done right.

Don't forget Habitat Waterford! (lol) Ammar Khan is still around. I must say i've remained pretty skeptical over the whole process, but a simple man with a dream was Walt Disney. Ammar has a backing in real estate, and to even be on the ballot means he has a fair amount of support. I admit the website and the concept art is dodgy as hell - but it still exists at www.sydneyswonderland.com.au - Ammar is also part of the Wonderland History facebook page, and he does come on to chat every now and then. Let's remember his ideas were only first mentioned a year or two ago. I remember WnWS plans on the board around 2009 - so a 4 year timeframe from first public mention to gates open (let's face it though - WnWS should have waited longer to open as they were not ready) so 5 years is reasonable - which means he's got a few years left before we all pour shit on the idea. As I said earlier - i've been pretty skeptical over it - mainly because the talk is 'bringing wonderland back' which we all know it won't be. it will be a theme park, and it will be called wonderland. Like we all know - every theme park has to have a drop tower - so it'll have one of those, and they'll probably call it "probe to space" since they probably can't use the name space probe... but the similarities will taper off after similar ride names and similar themed areas. Good luck finding a Bayern Kurve for a new wizard's fury, or a new intamin double ferris for the zodiac as I sincerely doubt most of the original unique rides at the park would still be manufactured ( excepting wave swinger ) - can you imagine Vekoma headquarters when they received an order for a new boomerang? please. However the one thing that keeps my mind from closing entirely on the idea is Bussy. Bussy knows Ammar, and has previously expressed a lot of faith in him to make this happen. For that reason alone - my mind remains open to see what he can do - but it won't be "rebuilding wonderland" - it will be "building a new park that perhaps loosely resembles some of the previous themes in the old park, and using similar names to capitalise on name recognition to bring people back". The one reason Sydney's Wonderland still has traction after more than 18 months is it's name. If it were called Elysian World we'd have all forgotten about it by now.

But the measurement I gave was what a 'paid extra' would earn for the day +/- $90 or so - so non-cash compensation to similar value (in the hands of the 'worker') is still acceptable. You are aware that the Australian taxation system is actually set up to factor in 'non-cash benefits' and tax them at their appropriate market value right? So a free ticket to the park, valued at $85ish at the gate - despite it not costing DW that much to produce - is still considered to hold that retail price value - and therefore they are receiving the equivalent to the cash wage they would otherwise receive, without the complications of having to employ them. So a pair of Nikes going for around $110, and the sweatshop kid normally receiving around 20 cents a day - he will earn himself a nice shiny pair of Nikes in around 18 months! Now here is where you are all sorts of wrong: Insurance: Being an unpaid worker does not remove ANY of the mandatory workplace health and safety requirements, public liability workers compensation insurance. A volunteer worker who is injured is covered by the organisations insurer, and they are compensated based on any PAID work they held prior to the accident if they are no longer able to perform it. Superannuation: if the "worker" earns less than $450 per month (which they would in only a single day) then legally they aren't entitled to superannuation. Leave: Casual workforces don't receive sick leave, annual leave, or any other sort of leave. If they don't work - they don't get paid. Unfair Dismissal: You've sat here arguing the merits of paying people for 4 hours work. Firstly - minimum shift lengths in most industries is 3 hours for casuals and 4 hours for FTE. Once the worker reports for duty, the employer is bound to pay them for those minimums to offset costs such as travelling to work etc. So we're talking about a 4 hour gig here - the earliest they could be 'dismissed' would be at the 3 hour mark... you honestly think anybody would argue for that extra hour? <waits for answer> Because - newsflash - the worker would be considered to be on probation, and therefore the employer doesn't even need to provide a reason for the dismissal - it may simply be that too many people showed up and not all of them were needed. The keenness of the kids doing the work is ABSOLUTELY relevant. If the park were bringing kids in to do tasks that employees at the park already do (such as your suggested internships earlier) then it would clearly be exploitation as they would not need to pay the full time workers to do their job... However there is no clear task here being done by these kids that would ordinarily be performed by a paid worker. Park employees aren't paid to ride rides (the exceptions being pre-opening testing and that sort of thing). You wanna pay these kids you need them all to fill out a tax file number declaration - which most of them won't have. Nobody is saying a person doesn't have a right to a fair wage. But you're confusing ongoing employment with a once off marketing shoot. You are of course aware that the terms and conditions of entry to the park (yes, when YOU PAY THEM to let you in) entitles them to capture you in film or photo, and use for marketing purposes without payment or permission from you, and your acceptance of this contract is evidenced by your entry through the turnstiles? So let's scratch this whole 'organised, out of hours thing' and let's shoot the commercial during park operating hours, using real guests having actual fun - and just use their image in the commercial? Is there anything wrong with that - given that they accepted that contract by scanning their ticket and entering the park? It's in the Ts and Cs right? The only difference between that, and what they're actually doing is that they've targeted the demographic they want on the ride, and they're doing it out of hours where they don't inconvenience paying guests by surrounding the ride with equipment, and potentially affecting operations. You'd most likely be one of the first people to come on here and complain that the film shoot they were doing during hours closed down the two newest attractions in the complex when you wanted to ride them, and woe is you... Would it be different if they went outside in the morning to the earlybirds and said "hey guys, we're shooting a commercial - would you all like to come in an hour or two early (isn't early entry normally chargeable?), ride our newest rides first without queues, and get free breakfast?" The only difference to that is that they've put out a call in advance so that they can be sure to have enough people at the gates when they need them. I really don't care if you don't see it from my point of view. You can remain on the wrong side if you wish. It is clear based on our culture, and even just from those who have commented that you are in the minority. Incidentally, the current government requires independents to pass legislation through the senate - so clearly - they aren't in the majority, are they?

attaboy. Well that would depend - an example given earlier in this discussion was a suggestion of a fair wage x number of hours needed = +/- $90. The day's entry to the park, coupled with what would probably include some food or snacks would see the compensation commensurate with the approximate pay applicable to a paid worker. Is the kid making the shoes receiving multiple pairs of shoes commensurate to the value of the product manufactured? I would suggest not - and therein lies the exploitation. Couple that with the fact that the kid is probably working because his family cannot afford to eat, and therefore he would be unlikely to put his hand up to make shoes for the reward of taking some shoes home - he can't eat shoes. However teenagers in South East Queensland usually don't need to work to put food on the table (of course there are exceptions in disadvantaged families) - so when a teenager puts their hand up to be in a film shoot for a commercial, they are fully accepting of the reward offered, and happily do the task. The flaw in your sweatshop example is that the kid making shoes is supporting a family with their efforts.