DaptoFunlandGuy

I don't think a name change is necessary. Perhaps an addendum (as a gross example, if Six Flags were to purchase they'd tack the SF onto the name) but i don't think Dreamworld as a brand has been destroyed. Ardent certainly has been hit, but much of the negative reporting has identified Ardent as the operator of the park, who has not done \ not said \ not implemented etc etc. Dreamworld's identity isn't getting the thrashing that Ardent is, and for that I think if Ardent sells, and sells publicly, confidence in the new operator with a good track record will be restored. For this reason it has to be someone with experience. It cannot be some random consortium looking to add a jewel to their portfolio for a bargain.

Everything I read along the lines of the above suggested there was a conveyor stop at the unload point. If the below is true: then this is really confusing - that little panel way out there - use that where the main panel can't be reached? that's like saying only touch your letter box if you can't touch your thumb. on the flip side, if that truly is the 'other' stop button - then it's no wonder operators were told 'nobody uses that'...

Ahhh - thankyou. with this additional information it makes a little more sense. That said, I read nothing into 'pressed multiple times'. A ride operator, who has smacked the mushroom, and sees the ride continue to move will smack it again and again. Ever been waiting for a lift or a pedestrian crossing, and seen someone press the button multiple times? Do you think that makes it work faster? Of course not - but human nature is to keep pressing the button. Your additional postulations are irrelevant. We can coulda shoulda woulda all day - the fact is the additional information you included was all academic - the statement that an operator could have stopped the ride and had 57 seconds to do so assumed real, actual events, and laid blame accordingly. Written word has little nuance. You're new here, so can I respectfully just suggest you think very carefully about how you word something (for example, read my questions to DjRappa on the previous page, and how careful I was to state my questions weren't "real life" applying to this incident), and read very carefully the responses you receive where it is negative... despite your intention, your words placed blame, and did so rather callously. We're a little community, and everyone here knows somebody with some sort of connection to this incident... be they staff at the park or guests affected by the loss of life.

On the contrary: I've spaced your statements out for impact, but your allegation was categoric. The tragedy could have been avoided if they pressed the button they had almost a minute to press the button i'm not sure why they didn't press the button in this minute, unless they weren't doing their job properly they have to live with that. I've refuted your statement on the basis that your assumption of 'almost a minute' is way off base, and also on the basis you assume that there is no conceiveable reason why they wouldn't have pressed the e-stop unless they were distracted. I've called into question your timeline (it's wrong) as well as the reasons why they didn't (training, policy, not identifying an issue until the last moment - hardly 'distracted'). I'm sure some operators will read these forums. Maybe even those giving evidence. Your statement isn't supported by the evidence and is downright disgusting. I'm sure (given we've heard of self harm incidents) that these people are living with this every day - without anyone suggesting that they were derelict in their duties (simply distracted) and had almost a minute to save these people, when in reality the first real indication for them that something was wrong was probably when the raft lifted out of the water. Are you an operator with knowledge of the attraction? You've said this twice, and yet we've already heard evidence at the inquest that the unload operator had access to a conveyor belt stop button, which has been referred to as an emergency stop, or '2-second stop' button - which suggests that there was more than just green buttons to left the rafts flow by. If you're only drawing on publicly accessible images to make your assessments, then please shut up - clearly evidence before the inquest has already discredited you, and you're just making a fool of yourself.

'a fan at the top' doesn't magically make them comfortable. On hot days, the airflow simply evaporates their sweat faster, dehydrating them quicker. Costumed characters go through hell. I've seen characters get backstage and literally collapse in a heap of sweaty plush, red-faced and all, after only 'sitting' in position for photos for 20-25 minutes.

I think that is a very hard line to take, and I would argue - inappropriate at best. The 57 second timeline, from what I have read, is the time from the pump failure, until the time the raft flipped. I've seen this style of ride in startup and shutdown, although i've never seen one operating on half it's pumps. I can imagine, given the time it takes the water level to drop in a total shutdown, that the shutdown of only one pump would make the water level drop a much less significant observation. Basically, with all the water rushing through the station area, guest communications, and mechanical noises, It is doubtful that one pump stopping would be all that noticeable immediately, both from a mechanical noise perspective, as well as a water level perspective AT THE TIME (ie: timeline 0:00) Also from what we have heard, the main operator panel has no visibility to the unload area, and had no responsibility for that area, which is why there was a separate unload operator. (In later years, Wonderland's snowy could be operated by a single operator using CCTV, with load and unload taking place on either side of the control booth). It is unfair to be making statements that 'either operator had 57 seconds' to prevent this. Or that they will have to 'live with that'. Yes, at some point before hand, the water level could have been noticed, the stalled raft at unload could have been noticed - in fact, in both cases, SHOULD Have been noticed - however this doesn't pin it on the operator. For all we've heard so far, Dreamworld's policies, dreamworld's training, and dreamworld's ignorance of previous recommendations brought this about, and in reality, nothing the operators could have done would have saved people by the time it became apparent. Even the stalled raft may not have appeared 'stuck' but only 'not moving yet' and it may well have been practice on the ride to allow the next raft to 'bump' it along - so even at THAT point, mere seconds before the flip, the unload operator may have not perceived anything wrong, because of the practice of the park's policies. TL:DR - with everything we have heard, it is not appropriate nor fair to pin the loss of these four lives on an operator, or to suggest that they had almost a full minute to perceive and react to save them. The park's culture appears to have taught them that everything was normal, and only when the raft lifted into the air would they have seen a problem worthy of e-stop, which by then would have been too late.

it would be nice if some of these perks were extended to memberships as well though. I mean - not the $50 vouchers - but even just the TG membership, or some ongoing discounts

No - we don't even get Ryder. Theme song starts show and revs crowd. Two girls come out and dance. Rev the crowd and encourage everyone to shout out to call Chase and Marshall. Comic ensues when pups briefly appear but the girls don't see them. (pantomime - "he's over there!" style talkback) Crowd calls again, pups enter to theme song. Talk about how no other pups are there. They're off doing something. No missions for Chase and Marshall at sea world... only having fun. (repeat this line several times, just in case people at Sea World aren't having fun) demonstrate dance steps. pick audience members give audience members silly paw gloves to wear. Don't fit them properly, so some audience members (kids) spend their entire time on stage trying to get the paws on properly ignore them, whilst encouraging them to follow along with the dance. mixed results - mostly no kid follows along cheer. take paw gloves off kids and usher them off stage. final windup. pups leave host girls wrap up show. theme song. SCENE. I'll admit, when I heard PP had a show at SW, it was actually a reason for me to want to take the little guy along to see - but he was just as unimpressed as I was. What could have made the experience a little better was if they had a photo opportunity on stage after the show. I realise for costumed dancers, all they wanna do is get backstage and cool off, but after a few minutes cool down they could easily come back out for some photos. good revenue for the park and a pleasant experience \ memory for the kids. I know they have a meet and greet stage nearby but it's not really suited to the pups. the stage, with the PP backdrop is.

I assume a typo in your first line "you can't have..." - if i'm wrong, apologies. I understand what you're saying if everything is looked at as a whole (which I agree it should be) however if it were considered a separate system, isn't it feasible? A hypothetical example - we all know about the gantry rig "helicopter" at AOS. Now, I have no knowledge of this thing at all, but I would assume that the gantry rig itself has some sort of 'E-stop' which can be pressed by the 'pilot' or someone else (say an operator backstage) that shuts it down... and that isn't that big of an assumption to make... However, I also imagine that show-control also has a 'big red button' which would stop not only the chopper, but every single thing wired to show control... thus a 'separate' system is designed to work under a 'master control' but still has its own "e-stop" to shut down just that system in an emergency...? Or (assuming the gantry was in some way industry standard equipment) would they have to remove an inbuilt "red-with-yellow" button when they install a bigger, redder button elsewhere that is wired to shut down other, separate systems? I'm honestly trying to understand this for my own sake, and not trying to be argumentative for the sake of it - but in case i'm still not explaining my difficulty in understanding - here's one more ludicrous example: If someone were to wire in an "emergency stop" button at some 'big office' in a park, that could literally E-stop EVERYTHING in a park - would that render all the 'e-stops' on each individual attraction, show and device illegal, and require them all to be turned into a standard black 'stop' button, simply because a 'higher' e-stop existed higher up in the control chain? I'm mindful about clogging this thread up with tangents though, so appreciate whatever answer you can give me and i'll leave this one at that for now.

I had occasion to visit Sea World yesterday for an extended family outing. Here are my thoughts... For reference: 4 adults, 4 kids, (all over 90cm). First up (and I know we've discussed this elsewhere) but whatever happened to Kirby's promise to have 'everything open' ? We were meeting family in park, so we decided not to detour to McD's on the way, and pick up something for breakfast \ brunch when we got there. On arrival, we climb the steep hill to the top, only to have a disinterested, corporate (VRTP) branded staff member casually observe our membership cards in hand, before lazily raising an arm in the direction of the alternate entrance saying 'oh, you've already got your tickets - this way'. There's something about childhood memories... of walking up that hill, with the blue dolphin looming overhead, quick stop for mum to frame a photo of the kids under the dolphin before a quick stroll through the ticket booths before opening up onto the lake proper... These days, this 'alternative entrance' which is dark, dingy, clearly not set up as an entrance, and appears to be primarily set up in this way so as to allow the greenscreen upsellers to make a buck, isn't really the best way to welcome people into the park - even if they hold annual passes, and have 'been there, done that'... especially as you then channel them out the doors towards some 'temporary' ticket booth scanners. It fucks with the flow. All guests inbound to the park should flow in one direction - unfortunately these two entry points cause contra flow - so a dingy, shitty look, and poor pedestrian flow = bad. Ok - we're in. Now for food - Lakeside happens to be right next to the 'alternative entrance'. Its shiny, clean and fresh looking, with some big TVs advertising a really nice bacon and egg burger, for under $10 - sounds delicious... except - theres a small A4 sign saying they're closed... and that you can be served at another outlet 30 metres away... which is fine - except there's nobody staffing that outlet either (they're all clustered around the espresso machine madly trying to serve all the coffee orders). We ask if the lakeside menu is available through the other outlets - No. We ask when will it open? They think 10... or maybe 10:30... but then one girl remembers that they'll be a bit later to open today because so-and-so was late. Oh, but did I mention, if you'd like to order Ice Cream at 9:50am on a frigid wintry morning - you can certainly do that... We decide to head to the plaza. They have a village bean, and a few other outlets... Maybe we'll have better luck there? Fat chance. even the Village Bean isn't open. Its 10:10. Bathroom break, ride the carousel, decide to head back to Lakeside for food. Staff were busily setting up sippers\drink bottles. the sign was still up. heat lights were on in the kitchen which was at least a positive. No communication except that damn A4 sign. Eventually, one of the staff told me they'd open in 5 minutes. 20 seconds later, the other staff member removed the A4 sign. 30 seconds later the first staff member took my order... and about 5 minutes later my burger shot down the chute of the food warmer. ...2 minutes later the original staff member put down the box of sippers they were packing and handed me the burger.... The burger was good. For theme park pricing, it was about what i expected, but it was hot, and the egg was runny (which was a surprise, but luckily no mess and thoroughly enjoyed it). It was tasty, and I probably would have gotten the same thing down the road for only $2 less, so value wise it was pretty good, and everything was fresh. So then we're finally off into the park. The park has a popup 'experience' desk just past the front building, offering 'dolphin pat and a seal hug, with photo for $xx'. It was a good combo deal, but it just repulsed me that the experience would be reduced just down to the 'pose, smile, click, get out' structure - SW's many animal experiences have for years been about much more than just the photo - and it seems like they'd boiled it down to 'how can we get as many paying people through as possible' - more focus on the revenue than the animals and the preservation messages, which to me just made it seem cheap \ pet porpoise pool style - not really suited to sea world at all. The helicopters were kept busy all day with asian tourists - this doesn't really impact anyone else and if someone wants to pay a fortune to enter a park to pay another fortune to fly over it, then thats just less people in my next queue... The seal show had an early 10:15 showtime, which was a great start to the day, except there was no signage or anything directing people up to the stadium. it was quite empty - we passed on this on our earlier walk-through. I have wanted to see it since it was re-done, but what little I caught as I walked past struck me that I probably didn't need to see anymore. Storm was closed, and with Vikings gone, it leaves a real hole in the park's 'central energy'. With the kids we spent a lot of time around Nick Land, and the kids got through a few rides. By now it was nearing 12pm, and it was time to checkout the Paw Patrol show, which Master Two usually goes crazy for. In terms of this, I'm just going to say that they've got two pup suits, and a banner, and the show consists of about 15 minutes of dancing with some audience involvement. It has about as much to do with Paw Patrol as it does to do with Sea World, and you could literally pick ANY intellectual property, get two suits, with two 'human' hosts alongside, and the show would be the same, provided the 'pup'-language was changed to suit whatever the IP was. It was generic, and even Master Two was bored. We checked out the polar bears - Mishka wasn't on exhibit, and then headed to Ray Reef. For me, I thought it was lacking, which is to say that there seemed to be a lot less Rays than there used to be. The fact that 'feeding' is not currently available is probably more an indicator of this as the rays aren't encouraged to interact with guests, rather than there being any change to population. There was also a maintenance worker in the tank scrubbing the sides - who was pleasant enough to interact with, but it struck me as odd for this sort of task to be done during park opening hours. We moved onto Shark bay whilst the older kids headed to Jet Rescue. Shark Bay also seems to be lacking some of the life it used to - I feel like there used to be more variety of shark and fish in the 'reef' side - I did however note the 'big shark' side had a turtle in it - something i'd never seen before. By this stage, we were getting closer to the time for the Jet Ski show. Deciding it was time for a (late) lunch, and not really having much interest in the Jet Skis, we decided to leave, and pick up a cheaper lunch elsewhere. Yes, this trip wasn't really about rides (for me) but it is really a stark contrast just how little there is to 'do'. There's plenty to 'see', but there is so much about our day thatcould have been better with very little effort. I can't imagine we'd have ridden storm had it been open, nor would we have done vikings, battle boats, or the splash play area, as it was just too damn cold. Little wonder there was nobody in the water for animal experiences either. The park has lots of summer things to do, but it's missing the land-based stuff that keeps a winter guest happy.... like hot fresh food first thing in the morning. We've discussed VRTP standards in detail, but I do feel that much of that discussion has centred around Movie World, with very little about SW or WnW - but it is just as apparent to me that SW is worse off than MW is - because at least one could stay busy all day at MW. We could easily have left SW by midday had it not been for certain showtimes, and there was little to occupy us in between. Forget the standards at MW right now - Sea World needs urgent help... NOW.

Into it's own thread that talks about your visit, or perhaps the sea jellies construction thread? Look at it this way - Based on this thread title, I could have come in here and given my views and thoughts of my park visit on 17/6. It has almost nothing to do with what you've posted, but by the title, both would be fine in this thread... and therein lies the problem...

This is not disagreement, but what if the "system" the second button was installed on was 'just' the conveyor? Couldn't one have a 'conveyor belt emergency stop' that ONLY stopped the conveyor? It isn't reliant on any other part of the ride - if the conveyor stopped, no other operating part of the ride could cause danger to the conveyor part of the ride... could it? I'm not arguing this is, or isn't how it was actually set up, i'm just trying to get an understanding of the terms, and rules applying to those terms as you've explained it...

Thanks for the summary @Roachie - these two points have me a little intrigued. I'm first wondering whether the 'confusing' label is that applied to it by investigators, or by qualified and experienced operators. Ie: were the people trained to operate it saying the panel was confusing? Or just a layperson? I'm sure many rides around the world would appear confusing to someone not trained on it... and I can't really imagine an experienced operator finding a panel confusing so i'm just trying to figure it out in my head. WRT the 'two' e-stops, my understanding is the main e-stop was an 'all stop' - so cut power to pumps etc, and for that reason, seven seconds sounds like the time it takes the water levels to drop within the station area. The 'second' (although apparently not marked in this way) was only a stop button for the conveyor - water continued to flow if this was pressed. If my understanding is correct, then the instructions 'not to use' and 'nobody uses that' kind of make sense. In an emergency, you would want an 'all stop' not just a 'stop the conveyor' so it does kind of make sense in most scenarios. At the end of the day its starting to sound much worse than we had thought out at Dreamworld, and I think the best outcome here for all is for the inquest to end with an outcome, for that outcome to absolutely crucify Ardent and it's operations, and for the park to be on-sold to an operator with an exemplary record to re-start everything from scratch.

I thought we were avoiding these generic megathreads?

So, right up your alley then?

Whilst I can't disagree with the thrust of your argument @Roachie, on a simple turn of the facts, he's right - they don't NEED to... the point is simply that they SHOULD.

That explains a lot.

Nothing in the article suggests the collection is going anywhere - only that it is owned by someone else. They've got it pretty nicely displayed as it is at the moment, and it costs money to house and store these things, so the new owner picks up a great deal on a collection that is already set up. In addition, ownership probably carries certain park access perks. Unless the new owner wants it for themselves, or wants to display it elsewhere (which would be stupid in my opinion, since a standalone display wouldn't attract the attention it gets at dreamworld, and would cost oodles to set up)... so i think we'll see the collection stay at the park for now. Of course, when its time for the collection to move on, It presents a unique opportunity for dreamworld to build an enclosed attraction in the heart of their primary thrill attractions area. .. which is something i look forward to.

Haven't really discussed much in the way of Merch - but you're right. I'm sick of the shops within the parks that sell surf-wear brands without any tie-in (rip curl \ billabong \ roxy etc) - like at WnW I get it - if you visit and you don't already have something to swim in, that'd be nice, but not as much of an issue at the other parks. One of my favourite souvenirs to pick up at a park is a polo shirt. I live in polo shirts, so i'm always looking to add to the variety. The parks always used to have quite unique offerings in this area, but now there aren't many options - and the option they do have is the same shirt with a different logo (eg: sea world sells it with a dark shark sillouette, movie world sells the same shirt with a black and gold movie world logo). On my last visit there was maybe one other option - same shirt style, but in a different colour, with the sea world logo in white, but no other options. There's always plenty of t-shirts - and sure, t-shirts are easy to spit out mass produced vinyl printed imagery for any random event you decide to throw on - but put a little flavour into something a little classier. Make them a limited batch for each event - even if they sell out early - i guarantee there are people out there who want more than just another t-shirt (plus the collar is more sun safe too!)

I realise there's some distance there, but surely you can see that tongue in my cheek?

By the book, I guess you could say it was - purists amongst us would disagree (and I would be one of them - AW anyone?) but I truly feel that the term has been watered down over time. Yes, in isolation, and by the book definitions, it's not much of a stretch to say it fits the bill... It is a leisure venue, and it has a particular "theme" (golf), it is a large area of land used for recreation, devoted to a specific purpose, which makes it a "park" - so the unified setting or idea is the golf theme, set in a park... anyone who considers AW to fit the bill must surely agree that TG fits it too... Whilst we're all debating that, i'm going to head down the road to that bowling theme park called Zone...

Yeah, noticed that last night too. I caught an ad for it on TV last night - the ad looks pretty good, tbh.

Yes, i think they had some sort of preview night a few nights ago, so no doubt all the necessary media and pretend media had access on the night.

Depending on the season, Disney can be done in 3 days. Usually you'd do a day each at DL and DCA, and then spend the third day catching up what you missed. Its important to know what your must do's are, and do them first. Check the schedules as you get closer and don't commit certain days to the park until you see the lineup. Some days, one park is open later than the other, and the nightly shows can vary too. Knott's is well worth the day. You'll have plenty of time at Knotts and it won't be rushed unless its silly season. While you're in the area, Universal is also worth the trip, as is SFMM - as some have said SFMM is crazy, but you can do a lot in a day - i stupidly went on a weekend when it was busier, but with a flash pass, we got most everything done. these would be my must do for an LA trip. Depending on where else you're going (if you are) then there are other stops worth the trip but it'd depend on what your plans are.

I think the angle is probably 'next time you're holidaying up here, add this to your theme park day...