Levithian

Literally just what I said above. 🤨

Yeah, but you are just repeating stuff I said last month, and probably the month before that too. Fundamentally, the problem is upper management don't see things like this as enough of an issue and this sentiment is represented in other places around the park too. Until you somehow manage to change these feelings (or lack of), it's always just going to be more of the same experienced over the last 10-15 years really. I.E. who cares how anything looks? the gates are open, the rides are running, what more do they want?! Throwing money at the problem is really only a band aid if it doesn't come with a long term vision that actually doesn't just end up back in the same position 2 or 3 years down the track. It needs capital for staff + expenditure, but it needs a yearly budget that isn't going to get messed with. It probably should go back to having parks presentation department where everything to do with the visuals of the parks is maintained. If there ever was a company (division) in desperate need of a leadership change and some refreshing ideas, it's this one. Still feel they really dropped the ball by pushing Greg to the outer.

It's because hazers produce MUCH smaller, particles that don't really disperse like smoke/fog does, it doesn't result in clouds of smoke, more like a mist that hangs around. It's why its good for laser effects. They normally do this by using an atomiser instead of a heating coil and air pump like smoke machines. It really plays havoc with smoke detectors though. The hazer fluid was oil based too which used to leave residues on things that were probably found to be flammable or pose some sort of respiratory risk too. As I said earlier, a lot has changed in the years since being removed though. Water based fluids, dry ice or co2 based machines produce atmospheric effects these days with basically no fire risk. Lots of alternatives don't have the spread/capacity/volume though and things like the scooby high zone is a VERY BIG SHED. Problem often comes down to coverage and cost because of it, especially in the case of co2 machines. Gas usage really drives the operating cost up and im just not sure it's something they are prepared to spend big on. The same thing could be said for wild west falls. You could return the dynamite fuses and explosive effects to lift 2 and the top turntable with modern systems, but when you combine ultra high levels of safety + effects, you really need to spend some decent money on the units to even remotely approach the same effect as real flame/sparks. If you cheap out, it looks like crap. 100% saying it can be done, I'm just not sure there is enough care from upper levels of management when it comes to visuals and theming. Talented staff have come and gone over the last 15-20 years that tried to push the issue, but it's never really gone very far anywhere within the parks. They really should still have electronics and electrical techs specifically dedicated to maintaining theme elements everywhere, thats what AV was for, but it all tends to get lobbed in with Electricians these days. It's not a very high priority if it's not something critical that's stops ride operating or some service/function within a building failing. Spending adequate amounts of money basically fixes 99% of your problems though......

What happens is the system isn't actually disabled and continues to monitor the building as intended, so it will beep at you and warn you of the isolations. You start by isolating the main system panel from connecting outside of the park in case you trigger an alarm, theres actually a usb encryption key for this. Then you isolate the building (zone) you want to access the panel on, then on the fire panel at the intended building you can isolate as many (or as little) detectors as you want. You leave them isolated, switch the panel back over and leave it isolated within the system. It's online and functioning with only your intended sensors isolated, so any of those triggers will remain local instead of being broadcast and ending up with firetrucks arriving within minutes. Everything else in the system works as normal and will trigger a fire alarm and have the services called, so no risk to patrons at all by doing this :) None of the buildings are sealed and it's not like it's pressurised, it wafts in everywhere as the buildings are essentially the same sheds as the studio sound stages, so the eaves are open. Even ones like Roxy with air conditioned entry foyer could be triggered by drift. Stars, dc shop, superman, roxy, ricks, daily planet, gotham, scooby. Even JL, driving school and show stage depending on the events. Pretty normal process to avoid HUGE disruption to your event, plus the call out fee the fire service charges. When they are alerted, they don't just turn up and you tell them everything is ok and they go home. They want to do their own inspections before giving the all clear and you can silence the alarms, while you hope none of your guests were injured while the park was evacuated.

I can guarantee you, multiple buildings utilise particle and thermal detectors. It is commonplace during events that fill main street with fog or haze to switch a number of zones over to thermal detectors only to avoid false alarms.

You really think they don't utilise thermal detectors? In that environment? exposing the general public to risk?

Just migrating previously divorced systems into a single control would be a huge undertaking that could actually completely result in failure, requiring replacement of existing hardware that just isn't compatible or just can't be made to play nice. Hell, just integrating a Q-SYS core into different rides to give them complete control over sound and lighting/fx was a big enough undertaking, and that really had nothing to do with the actual running environment. People also need to realise (remember?) that scooby doo has ALWAYS been a victim of changing controls and expectations surrounding things like fire systems and safety. We would all love to see hazers, complex laser lighting and smoke so thick it billows out exit doors any time they are opened, but it's not 2002 anymore, and some things haven't been deemed possible/acceptable for quite some time. I'd like to see alternatives investigated, especially these days with modern chilled or co2 atmospheric effects in use, but maybe it's not an option either. The cynic in me can't help but feel some part is due to the cost/really do not care enough about this to make a serious effort though. Sometimes I think management fail to realise the experience is not just about a physical ride, but everything else that goes with it too. Goes double for in park entertainment too. If the ride is on a track destined to repeat itself, what makes lasting memories for people? you only needed to spend 10 minutes reading facebook replies to see common themes to guest experiences reliving experiences across decades of operation. Can't really do that now can you? 🤣 It's funny that the company once implemented a "creating memories" campaign with a demonstrated push to focus on guest experience and drive up satisfaction, but it's literally like they learned nothing from the period and it just fell away like many other promises or hype they have come up with over the years.

Not trying to make it excuses, but you have to understand the vastly different work/employment environment in Australia though too. Nobody (or the overwhelming majority) wants to work at night. There are also what are essentially block out periods which are considered unordinary work hours. Working during them attracts heavy penalties. Work during night is often considered high risk, sometimes it attracts penalty rates (again), other times it's just not deemed possible as it's becoming increasingly unacceptable for staff to work by themselves in adverse conditions (night time with lack of lighting, lack of staff, combined with things like at heights are considered high risk environments). So, negotiating your way around these sort of things when Australia has some pretty well defined laws, especially when you are up against bargaining agreements, and the vastly increased costs that come with it, it's not always so easy as just thinking you can work at night. What Australian parks could really benefit from is an off season. But, due to our largely tropical to temperate climate found throughout the year in South Queensland, that's not something that is really a consideration.

Because they didn't just replace brake sections. People don't realise but scooby doo was originally designed to be able to be transported. Many parts of the high zone exist on turrets, not fixed to multiple columns like you would expect of an in built track. It's very fluid and moves a staggering amount, as attested to by anyone who has ever worked the high zone with the lights on (especially with the ride in operation!), There are witness marks in many places showing how far it actually moves if you only know where to look. It's like a living, breathing thing every time a car comes through. And thats before you get started on the lift system, not just the cab and track itself, but the winch control and braking systems utilised by it. The braking system is so much a part of the run environment, each one represents a block after all, that simply removing them requires a complete change to the ride control systems as there is a lot going on within each brake zone. Speed monitoring, brake over/under runs, distance monitoring, plus obviously the block system and safety brakes. The ride is so sensitive to car timing not only through the brake block, but between blocks too that changes in speed monitoring registering in milliseconds can send the ride into safety faults. Think of how different friction brakes perform vs mag brakes, think of the hours upon days, upon weeks of testing you'd have to perform to just account for how the brakes will perform once installed, not to mention when jammed inside a hot tin shed. It was always due for a ride control system upgrade as part of the safety case put forward after the dreamworld accident. It was one of those rides that was identified as falling within the new 10 year MAJOR inspection and safety upgrades were put forward as part of the upgrade. You saw the first round of similar upgrades at road runner with new trains, new brakes, new ride control, basically, all that was left was the track. How long was the shutdown for it? and thats a system with only 2 trains and 3 block zones! It was a similar story at wild west falls and I don't think people understand just how much of an investment this was by village. Not just in immense cost, but the man hours that went into even getting to the point of rolling out the upgrades, the testing, the changes made, modifications. It's probably easier to roll out a new ride than it is to try and integrate more functionality and different control systems into an existing PLC based ride control system. It essentially meant the death of arkham asylum, it nearly took down road runner too. It shows you how determined village were to see the ride reopened and not replaced. So, not only were sections of a very unique track design replaced, new cars designed taking them away from the manual, ratchet operation of the restraints, new frictionless brakes installed, along with complete upgrades of the ride control system to actually have all this function, including actually pushing all these upgrades through to the qld government for certification, you go and throw unscheduled downtime into the mix and a ride manufacturer that wasn't expecting to have to develop new sections of track until a later planned shutdown; what do you get? Chaos. You get chaos. You can be disappointed at the results, but I don't think its fair to downplay the amount of work that went into just keeping this ride open for future generations. I can guarantee you there were discussions surrounding its closure, it could have been a vastly different outcome. People talking about possibility of injuries riding in the darkness, this was a very real thing when they opened after gutting the ride. Greater levels of darkness experienced then, but it really makes a difference when your body can't brace for intended changes of direction. Certainly saw a rise in complaints for not only things like neck and back pain, but just overall perception of how rough the ride experience was too.

They really have a terrible track record for restoring theme elements after a massive shut down. That west shutdown with the new station and boats was the same. Same goes for years upon years worth of justice league closures. It's literally like, somewhere along the line, someone gives absolutely no f*cks for any of it and any planned repairs are canned. I just can't work out if it's apathy or if its budgetary. It's honestly pathetic that everyone seems comfortable with the results they keep producing. At some point I would have thought someone with an opinion that mattered would have had a word and a focus would have shifted to actually doing something about it parks wide, but, nope. Still seems the same as usual. I can't for the life of me think its because nobody in their maintenance teams either cares enough or has the skill to make these repairs, so it only leaves me to think it has to be a management decision. Village MO would tend to suggest they don't allocate the funds and the labour to not only fixing the issues, but to keep them maintained/working. I remember a time when they wouldn't want to open with things broken/out of service. They would actively hold up openings while repairs were attempted, and if the ride supe made a note of it in their diary because it wasn't fixed, it would get passed on to maintenance teams and you would normally see something done about it within a week.

He actually seemed to care about what was going on. He used to frequently be seen walking through the parks at different times of the day, chatting to different people. Seemed like if he wanted to know something, he would just walk out his office and look for himself. In the event of any incidents, he was out there following what was going on, seeing if there was anything he could do but staying out of the way of people trained to respond and letting them get on with it, then debriefing in his office afterwards, making sure everyone who attended was ok.

Given how he was basically overlooked at village, and with bikash now gone, I really wonder if Greg goes home at the end of his day with a nice smile on his face, knowing the general public is now seeing the positive effects and influence he (and half his team that ended up following him) has had since taking over the company. Must be really satisfying to help turn around a company that was close to insolvency, have a plan for improvements (not just recovery) and start to see the positive feedback from guests following investments in things like this. It looks fantastic, when the other reality could have just been another relocation of old cars running around on a track. It's refreshing to see some care and attention given to the setting and themed elements of a ride again, especially when it isn't a big budget thrill ride. Yeah, limited budgets, limited space are always constraints in Australia, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't at least try to deliver something that improves the overall experience. To me, it really shows intention to build zones or lands back into theme parks, something that at least makes an attempt at something cohesive instead of just plonking something down on a bit of land and calling it done. Makes me wonder just how constrained he was working under the village shroud, when this is like the polar opposite of how things are going over there.

Every single high risk industry is playing the risk aversive game. That's what I mean by this day and age. Change is just an opinion. While they continue making profits everybody is happy with, there is basically no metric that shows they actually need to change and its business as usual. There's lots of things they do need to change about the business and the delivery of the parks that would improve guest experience that has nothing to do with their operations policies though. But operations wise, everyone can keep discussing it till they are blue in the face, it's just not something the current management will ever deviate from. Because they purchased the company massively undervalued, they talked of improvements all round as a lot of the properties were seen as run down, dirty, etc. Private equity will spend money if it means they make money. All the properties will look and feel their best they have ever done.... right before you see them for sale. Only question is are BGH playing the long or shot game, because it's already been 5 years and we haven't heard any murmurs yet. All they really needed to do was ride out the covid disaster and return visitor numbers to the figures of 3-4 year period before and they probably could have offloaded the theme park division pretty easily for good profits.

Fire departments don't do that. They don't make policy or give people direction on things like building materials. That's what building codes are for. Anything you use just has to conform to whatever the current standard is. For things that are flammable, it usually has a performance minimum, ie, how long it takes to burn, ignition points, etc. Lots of this can often be overcome with all these different types of fire retardant though, BUT, it generally has a shelf life too. That's what village found out across a number of their properties, not just in scooby doo. It's what lead to the gutting of the ride the first time around. Think poorly performing aluminium building cladding levels of fire. There is pretty much always a safer alternative though. Especially now with the use of 3d printing and reconstituted stone materials. It often just comes down a cost or convenience thing. Are they happy to go the downgraded cheaper option or are they really looking to keep the aesthetics with the additional cost associated? Even with 2d backdrops, there are vastly different outcomes that can be achieved if you actually use artists vs just slap a vinyl print up there. We saw the outcome of the latter in recent years, often at the cost of painted murals or signage that were night and day different. Village had one of the best muralists and sign writers working for them for over 20 years, it really showed across all their parks, the quality and level of detail was evident. It also showed when they got rid of him...... You can thank most of the "movie magic" or themed elements to buildings, set pieces and rides across the parks to a company called sculpt studios. They have been designing and building these elements for village roadshow for quite a long time, not just in their theme parks either! They are a pretty diverse company and can make pretty much anything look like something else. It all just comes down to cost.

Warner bros don't own even a small portion of movieworld, let alone any other village property. They haven't done for quite a long time. It's just a licencing deal to continue to use the name at this point.

I think he was meaning flat 2d walls are a downgrade from the textured, rock like looking ones that were used before.

still sound to be petrol driven engines with throttles. So I'm probably going to say no.

To a point, yes it will improve things. But indoor rides are always much dirtier environments by nature. It's not like the cleaning team are running around with vacuum cleaners under the track and all through the high zone every night. Running fluids, greases, general dirt and grime, rubber from all the friction drive wheels. It'll still be pretty dirty, just not AS dirty. Makes a big difference when things are outside with wind blowing through and rain frequently washing everything down.

TRRR is a vastly different situation stemming from negligence though, but I don't want to get into it because it takes the conversation away from here. 100% its a cop out by applying blanket rules to everything instead of actually taking up a lot of time developing sop's and managing each appliance in a case by case basis. But that's pretty much how all industry is these days, it's a desire for uniformity. Nobody wants to expose themselves to any risk at all as even if you did all you could, if you weren't found negligent or culpable in even the slightest way, it still opens you to being sued (and facing settlement) for causing injury or death. It puts your entire business under a microscope, not just now, but history going back decades. Not to mention the public fall out and the brand damage that follows. So what happens? you go from looking at worst case scenarios to looking at apocalyptic, never in a million years type events. These are the cascading type ones where multiple issues have to combine together to create disaster. So they try to be proactive and mitigate those possibilities from ever happening, let alone the major risk that's present if they combine. It's frustrating for pretty much everyone. All facets of employees, guests, even ride manufacturers, but it is what it is. People really do NOT understand how serious the green lantern incident was years earlier and just how much village roadshow took away from this situation. It is primarily responsible for setting in motion major changes right through the company, not just in how risk is managed, but how far they can offload responsibility to other parties too. You'll find village roadshow a company with a safety culture that is seen to go WELL above the minimum standard as far as procedures and operations go. They constantly receive feedback from regulators praising their efforts, so it's just how it is. I've said MANY times on here, village are prepared to suffer negative publicity and discontent from guests to implement their style of management and operational control. They aren't prepared to take what is largely seen as a backward step at all. It's just non negotiable. People can argue as much as they want, question why, come up with all kinds of weird theories or even offer to walk in and fix all their operational issues, but at the end of the day it simply comes down to they aren't going to deviate from the core. The ONLY thing you can realistically do to improve things like load times and really slow operations is simply to spend more money. More money on increasing permanent staff. More money to retain existing staff. More money to train all staff. There really isn't any point in going any further while this is still a fundamental issue. You could implement existing policy and procedures far more effectively and probably make changes where needed without deviating from their plans, but you can't do it without addressing those 3 issues. Need more staff. Need more competent staff. Need those you have invested in to stick around. Village have always had a bit of a culture of people can be replaced, and there are more employees out there. So when combined with the dysfunctional and insular management many staff members have experienced over the last 15 years, it's been tough going actually retaining staff across many different departments. VERY tough going keeping the good employees you really want sticking around. They either know their worth and move on, while many suffer burn out, or are driven from the company out of frustration. Business as usual though. They aren't serious about addressing guest satisfaction in the slightest. Not until their hand is forced. I've seen a number of people blame private equity as the reason, but that's really misguided. This took root long before the sale of the company, and more or less the same people are still in charge.

it's so much worse when you have to get under the flooring. 🤢🤮🥴

I see you've played scooby doo mystery goo before. 😂

Ohh god yes they did. It's been a long time coming. Multiple instances, some even making the news, due to guest items dropping into working parts of the ride. Some even caused considerable damage. The other thing always was, scooby is filthy. Probably the worst ride in the park. It's a combination of being inside, and when you combine drive tyres wearing, brake material wearing AND GUESTS TIPPING/SPILLING DRINKS AND GOD KNOWS WHAT ELSE (pro tip, its usually vomit. haha), it really made it a nasty place to be. The amount of foul smelling, usually purple (for some reason) goo that would attach itself to you without you realising it was enough to want to scrub yourself clean everytime. Think of scooby like a big St Bernard dog. They brush past you and leave a trail of slobber without you even knowing it. Next minute, its on your clothes, its in your hair, you might even get some of it in your mouth! 😂 🤮

In this day and age, regardless of how the control system works, there is NO chance of being able to get away with the ride operator leaving the control panel. Just the notion of there not being a person there to respond in the event of an emergency, even if they can't actually do anything other than hit an estop that makes no difference until the train reaches a brake run opens you up to being crucified if another accident happened, especially if it made it to an inquest because of a death. It really brings question to how you operate everything, people start making judgements on if something would have been different if you were at the panel and could respond quicker, even if that's just you being able to generate an e-stop and immediately radio through a code for attendance. The old adage, seconds matter, can actually ring true, plus it also brings in a level of confusion when something actually happens. I've seen people walk right past responders in the event of an incident because they were overwhelmed, so trying to locate someone that by nature is a fluid position (ie, they are moving), it's just another one of those things that can make matters worse. Basically, it's just a slippery slope that nobody wants to die on (argue against) when being put before investigators, so the person in control of the ride is going to stay at the panel. The laws introduced say nothing at all about operations and or how you run a ride. Rightly, they leave that up to the ride manufacturer and trust that the operator (the park) is following their guidelines and knows what they are doing. The accident was just the catalyst to go a bit over the top. Previously, operational procedures basically came from the ride manufacturer and that was largely how things were run. Then, during the mid to late teens, people within management culture thought they knew better, despite none of them actually having any qualifications to support this and started implementing their own controls above the ones specified by the manufacturer. Then it completely snowballs to the point where additional control measures are required above existing devices, and new procedures are invented despite everything being monitored to within tenths of a mm, in addition to which everything has double or triple redundancy. Now its to the point where evacuations are pretty much mandatory any time a safety fault occurs, no matter if its just a protection fault and can be reset fine. Some of the newer procedures put the members of the public at greater risk than trusting the ride control system to be reporting correctly and utilising the judgement of multiple trained/skilled people to make an assessment on the situation and return the train or cars back to the station with people still firmly within their seats. Climbing out of seating or vehicles, walking along catwalks, climbing down ladders, all these things open people up to greater risk of injury than if the ride was still under control. But it is what it is. When you get down to it, there is a lot of contradictory statements/opinions floating around in procedure documents, what's right in one situation is no longer good enough or completely overlooked in another. Ultimately its entirely down to risk avoidance though. If you keep that in mind any time you question why, you start to see it making more sense. Well, maybe sense is a strong word, how about you start to gain some understanding of why things are done the way they are. It's been a progression over the last 10 years. It actually frustrates ride manufacturers because there have been instances where control systems had to be modified or reprogrammed because additions wouldn't function correctly. But it's the village way and nothing is going to change that now.

yeah, but it was always a piece of crap that was supposed to be improved when being relocated and the drive system replaced.

The tape could denote cylinders that need repair/replacement. They used to have a bad habit of cracking the clevis at the bottom of the cylinder mount, that and internally, the spring inside sometimes randomly breaks and it rattles around inside. No real worry about brake operation when open, but during a shutdown you have the perfect chance to inspect them thoroughly.