Luna Park Sydney's expansion

[Wil_i_am_not]

Those particular units @Nimble are manufactured by ARM and are copied from the original HUSS machines. They give much worse rides IMO, and I've found them to clunky and sickening. I think there are about 5 or 6 of the ARM models here in Aus. On the other hand, the HUSS Rainbow gives a MUCH better ride, with some awesome floaty air and a smooth action.

[Nimble]

34 minutes ago, Wil_i_am_not said:

Those particular units @Nimble are manufactured by ARM and are copied from the original HUSS machines. They give much worse rides IMO, and I've found them to clunky and sickening. I think there are about 5 or 6 of the ARM models here in Aus. On the other hand, the HUSS Rainbow gives a MUCH better ride, with some awesome floaty air and a smooth action.

Oh okay, I haven't ridden either of the two rides so I had no clue

[HussRainbow87]

Don’t mention that trash anywhere when talking about HUSS machines. Haha and that is one comment myself and many others will back. 

[Jobe]

1 hour ago, Wil_i_am_not said:

Those particular units @Nimble are manufactured by ARM and are copied from the original HUSS machines. They give much worse rides IMO, and I've found them to clunky and sickening. I think there are about 5 or 6 of the ARM models here in Aus. On the other hand, the HUSS Rainbow gives a MUCH better ride, with some awesome floaty air and a smooth action.

Also correct me if I am wrong but the ARM Ali Baba has over the shoulder restraints as well?? I havent ridden one of these but know of their infamous reputation. I have ridden a Rainbow many times and the feeling of the being free and that floater air as you describe is brilliant!!  What a shame there are none running in Australia at the moment- I do understand that their reputation took a hit when their was a fatal accident on one in Sweden I understand?

Is one likely to hit the road any time soon?? This is becoming like the fabled Turbo!!!

[19Michael96]

On 15/10/2018 at 9:12 PM, 19Michael96 said:

I think it might have been called the "Disco Express" or "Disco Train" in it's LPS days; don't know.

Damn it I meant to say BEFORE it's LPS days, BEFORE!!!

23 hours ago, Wil_i_am_not said:

Was the Love express a Mack Music Express? There IS a Music Express style ride called the Love Express owned by OCS Fun (same company that owns the Rainbow) that toured around Sydney during the early 2000's, and also made a rare appearance at the 2012 Fishers Ghost Festival in Campbelltown, however it isn't manufactured by Mack. The ride hasn't been seen for many years now , and is probably sitting out in someones paddock rusting away.

Yeah that looks like the model LPS had in the 80's.

[Wil_i_am_not]

Yeah the ARM units have OTSR's @Jobe, that's one of the main reasons that I find them uncomfortable. They're still a great money maker for showmen, but I'm just not a huge fan. The HUSS unit however I've gotten to ride once, and from what I remember, I loved every second of it! I was pretty young though, which is a shame. Fingers crossed for Youngs unit, which I believe is currently being refurbished?

Edited October 17, 2018 by Wil_i_am_not

[Nimble]

On 16/10/2018 at 9:39 PM, 19Michael96 said:

Yeah that looks like the model LPS had in the 80's.

I can't find any photos of the '80s one, so I'm going to take that as the model. It might also be the same one that LPS had though!

[Jobe]

On 18/10/2018 at 7:18 AM, Nimble said:

I can't find any photos of the '80s one, so I'm going to take that as the model. It might also be the same one that LPS had though!

Yeah Nimble all the info I have points to the 80"s Luna Park Unit being the same one that was later bought by Wittingslow and was installed at Darling Harbour  where it briefly became a travelling unit before settling back at LPS in 1994 when Wittingslow operated that particular incarnation of the park. It certainly looks the same!!!

[19Michael96]

3 hours ago, Jobe said:

Yeah Nimble all the info I have points to the 80"s Luna Park Unit being the same one that was later bought by Wittingslow and was installed at Darling Harbour  where it briefly became a travelling unit before settling back at LPS in 1994 when Wittingslow operated that particular incarnation of the park. It certainly looks the same!!!

No. I really do think the music express that was at Luna Park in the 80's was a different unrelated model to the more know MACK ride that was at the park from 1995-2016. Here's some comparison shots:

 

Here's the "Love Express" in 1982. You'll notice the roof is different compared to...

...the MACK ride which looked more like a tent. (Side note: I am a little disappointed Luna Park didn't give the Rotor it's 2 corner cuts back when they recently renovated it; it would've looked less boxy. But hey, at least "ROTOR" is on both sides of the ride facade now, as well as the back).

Also, if you have a copy of "Spirits of the Carnival" (which I don't think is available anymore because of how out of date it is), they show some footage of LPS in the 80's and how soulless it looked. Some of that footage includes the "Love Express", which looks different to the "Tango Train" and it also runs slower. I'd put a link but the docos not available online.

 

[Jobe]

1 hour ago, 19Michael96 said:

No. I really do think the music express that was at Luna Park in the 80's was a different unrelated model to the more know MACK ride that was at the park from 1995-2016. Here's some comparison shots:

 

Here's the "Love Express" in 1982. You'll notice the roof is different compared to...

...the MACK ride which looked more like a tent. (Side note: I am a little disappointed Luna Park didn't give the Rotor it's 2 corner cuts back when they recently renovated it; it would've looked less boxy. But hey, at least "ROTOR" is on both sides of the ride facade now, as well as the back).

Also, if you have a copy of "Spirits of the Carnival" (which I don't think is available anymore because of how out of date it is), they show some footage of LPS in the 80's and how soulless it looked. Some of that footage includes the "Love Express", which looks different to the "Tango Train" and it also runs slower. I'd put a link but the docos not available online.

 

You could be correct but I am not 100% convinced based on that evidence.It  could also be the same ride with a new roof and a re-theme. The rides themselves look incredibly similar

 

Yeah i have The Spirits of The Carnival DVD- its a great doco.  Its a while since I have seen this though- will have to hunt around and get it out for a viewing.

I visited LPS in the 80"s a couple of times- yeah it certainly was a shadow of its former self. Still, it did have a couple of redeeming qualities ( The Schwarzkopf  Jet Star was an interesting ride - unique in Australia  and it was not a bad collection of rides overall) but it did nothing to match the atmosphere of the original nor even the current incarnation.

[Wil_i_am_not]

Yeah I would absolutely love to watch the Spirits of the Carnival docco, but I can't find it anywhere online. I even emailed the company responsible for making the movie, but I received no response. Looks like it has some great footage on same of the lesser-known rides at Luna Park. 

If the Love Express from Luna Park is indeed the model that OCS Fun traveled around Sydney, who the hell manufactured the thing?! The closest thing I can compare it to would be a Sobema Superbob mixed with a Mack Music Express?

[19Michael96]

On 19/10/2018 at 6:18 PM, Jobe said:

I visited LPS in the 80"s a couple of times- yeah it certainly was a shadow of its former self. Still, it did have a couple of redeeming qualities ( The Schwarzkopf  Jet Star was an interesting ride - unique in Australia  and it was not a bad collection of rides overall) but it did nothing to match the atmosphere of the original nor even the current incarnation.

Well credit where credits due; the 80's incarnation did give us the current ferris wheel, which still goes strong to this day after 30+ years of operation (excluding that 7 year period where it didn't run).

[Nimble]

On 19/10/2018 at 11:10 PM, Wil_i_am_not said:

Yeah I would absolutely love to watch the Spirits of the Carnival docco, but I can't find it anywhere online. I even emailed the company responsible for making the movie, but I received no response. Looks like it has some great footage on same of the lesser-known rides at Luna Park. 

I got one around Christmas at the park's gift shop on DVD. It is a really good documentary, and I recommend it, but recently, it hasn't been there anymore... Maybe they stopped selling it. 

[Jobe]

As an aside, Luna park is set to receive a whole new website in 2018 , launching around Easter.

Here is the link to the article :

http://www.campaignbrief.com/2017/10/luna-park-set-to-launch-new-we.html

 

Very interesting and good signs showing the ongoing commitment to refreshing the park and overall experience.

For those who are a little unsure about the current  state of play that Luna Park is currently in, here is a very informative summary of the situation by law firm Carroll and O'Dea. The link to the article can be found here:

https://www.codea.com.au/sub-publication/taken-for-a-ride-development-consent-troubles-for-luna-park/

Quote

A recent decision of the Land and Environment Court has prevented the operators of the Luna Park amusement park from installing a new ride. Luna Park Sydney Pty Ltd (“Luna Park”) had their application for a construction certificate for a new “Flying Carousel” or “Swing Ride” knocked back by the certifier as the works “cannot be demonstrated as not inconsistent with the development consents as it was unclear whether the development consents authorise the installation of new rides”. Luna Park’s attempt to overturn this decision in Court failed, with Luna Park stating that this decision may jeopardise the ongoing operation of the park.

The case before the Land and Environmental Court was a Class 4 judicial review, as there is no right of a merit appeal regarding a decision made by a certifying authority. Luna Park submitted that the certifier made an error in law in saying that the construction of this new ride was not inconsistent with an existing development consent granted in 2003, the application of which stated “New open rides and amusements may also be provided within the Ride and Amusement Zone from time to time. This will allow flexibility in the location of rides and the ongoing evolution of Luna Park.”

The Minister for Planning, arguing against overturning the certifier’s position, stated that a Consent that approved the use of new rides did not provide approval for any new development works that would be required to construct those new rides. It was noted that an approval that allowed the use of new rides but did not allow the construction of new rides would appear to have no purpose. Molesworth J in his decision noted that one such purpose was to provide a guarantee that proposed land uses were accepted prior to moving to “the more expensive stages of preparing detailed design for development”.

The result of this decision is that Luna Park will be required to make a new development application where it wishes to perform works in order to replace, remove or relocate rides. Luna Park has a well-documented history of objections from neighbours living in the expensive Milsons Point suburb who are expected to prove an obstacle during the public consultation required in any new development application. The authority deciding the application will be required to consider all public objections made regarding a development application, although strong public objection will not necessarily prevent approval.

A likely result is that thrill-seekers will have to wait a while yet before any new amusements are built at Luna Park.

 

[HussRainbow87]

On 19/10/2018 at 11:10 PM, Wil_i_am_not said:

Yeah I would absolutely love to watch the Spirits of the Carnival docco, but I can't find it anywhere online. I even emailed the company responsible for making the movie, but I received no response. Looks like it has some great footage on same of the lesser-known rides at Luna Park. 

If the Love Express from Luna Park is indeed the model that OCS Fun traveled around Sydney, who the hell manufactured the thing?! The closest thing I can compare it to would be a Sobema Superbob mixed with a Mack Music Express?

I think thats the documentary I have on DVD that I bought from the park....

Not sure who made the LE, it could have been a Sobema, but ANOTHER ride OCS ran into the ground, how that thing got on Moomba a couple of times was beyond me... I think the second time it didnt have the roof on... standard.

[Nimble]

20 hours ago, Jobe said:

As an aside, Luna park is set to receive a whole new website in 2018 , launching around Easter.

Here is the link to the article :

http://www.campaignbrief.com/2017/10/luna-park-set-to-launch-new-we.html

 

 

You alright? The website already launched lol, and it's really bad. 

website

[Jobe]

6 hours ago, Nimble said:

You alright? The website already launched lol, and it's really bad. 

website

 

Ha. Yeah you are quite correct. And yes agree the current website is not great. Had a brain fart and thought it was a brand new site for NEXT year. Thats what 14 hour work shifts will do to you. Cheers 

[Jobe]

The State Governments proposal to change the State Environmental Planning  Policy for the Luna Park heritage site is nearing its end time for exhibition. This concludes on the 9/11/2018.

The proposal will then move to the consideration stage where hopefully it swiftly moves to the Final stage of policy being made. 

The policy can be found here under exhibition on the state planning site :

http://planspolicies.planning.nsw.gov.au/index.pl?action=view_job&job_id=9674

The full proposal and document can be found in the below PDF:

Luna Park EIE 2.pdf

 

The main points of the proposal are:

Interestingly, the document outlines also with a plan on where development of rides and attractions can take place in the park ( see the PDF for this. )

This , hopefully, is a huge positive step for the park to move forward and resume its plans for ride reinvestment and renewal. This legislation should address any concerns that management of Luna Park has cited as being onerous towards any new development. 

Win win for all. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Thanks for the update Jobe!

It sounds like a very sensible way forward for all, and outlines specific details which, once legislated, cannot be challenged by residents.

[Slick]

Totally onboard with all of this.

Now Multiplex needs to get creative and do cool shit like this:

 

[XxMrYoshixX]

Good news. On the whole this sounds completely reasonable.

Hopefully this ends the 20 year dispute between the Park and the neighbours, for now.

Maybe if the management want to get creative, move a couple of the kids rides to Lavender Green and use the freed up space in Maloney's Corner to add another ride. Surely they all must be less than 16m height.

As to any coaster suggestions, the big two land spaces everyone thinks of is the one in Maloney's Corner adjacent to Coney Island which usually houses temporary rides every summer, and the site which is currently occupied by Tumble Bug.

I've done a bit of research and the Tumble Bug space, seen below is 37 x 25 m.

The Maloney's Corner spot is a bit larger at 31m x 41m.

These two individual spaces are not that large, as many people know, but they are the largest plots of land available in the park. For coasters in these spaces I'm going to assume LPS buys something off the shelf rather than going custom for the sake of cutting costs.

A few rides here are instantly ruled out because they are too tall for the 120 ft height requirement. Those include a GaleForce clone, an El Loco or a Maurer SkyLoop. Not that anyone wanted either of those anyway.

Further a few coasters are also ruled out because it is physically impossible to fit them in the space. Those rides are Infinity Coasters, El Locos, RMC Raptors, Zamperla Thunderbolts and most Eurofighters unless LPS can come up with a custom layout of their own. So that rules out a Hydrus clone as its space is too long for any open space in the park.

That leaves us with just a few coasters that can physically fit the space. Those are SC1000 and SC2000 Spinning coasters from Maurer (the SC2000 will only barely fit into either space) and the smallest off the shelf layout of Gerstlauer Bobsled Coaster (which also barely fits and will need to be cut down slightly). Maybe if LPS gives Maurer a call they could sort them out with a little X-Car like Drayton Manor's G-Force.

This is a video of an SC2000 in action (bear in mind LPS have considered this coaster at least once too)

The best fit IMO is the SC2000. I'm not a fan of spinning coasters but if LPS are interested in building another one they need to build something that is a step up from Wild Mouse. Considering how there is so little space available I'd argue an SC2000 is locked for the next LPS coaster. However to get better bang for their buck LPS should definitely go with something custom.

Alternatively LPS could retrofit the Big Top to have a flat roof rather than the curved circus-style one it has now. I can see that building being due for a refit in 10 years or so because the concert facility doesn't make as much money for the park as it once used to. If in the unlikely event that happened, that opens the door to practically any option under the sun that is under 36m in height...

Edited November 7, 2018 by XxMrYoshixX

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

*groan*

Forget any hope or chance of modifying, or removing the big top.

[Jobe]

9 hours ago, XxMrYoshixX said:

Maybe if the management want to get creative, move a couple of the kids rides to Lavender Green and use the freed up space in Maloney's Corner to add another ride. Surely they all must be less than 16m height.

 

9 hours ago, XxMrYoshixX said:

A few rides here are instantly ruled out because they are too tall for the 120 ft height requirement. Those include a GaleForce clone, an El Loco or a Maurer SkyLoop. Not that anyone wanted either of those anyway.

You have not read the  State Environmental Planning Policy correctly. It states that:

Complying rides are restricted to 118 feet or 36 metres as you have correctly stated, however, the park is allowed SIX rides                   ( including the existing Ferris Wheel, The  Hair Raiser and the Moon Ranger) of being between 18 metres or 59 feet and 36 metres and 118 feet. This gives plenty of scope to add some rides and attractions of a decent height in the future, especially considering we know that Moon Ranger's days are numbered.

9 hours ago, XxMrYoshixX said:

Further a few coasters are also ruled out because it is physically impossible to fit them in the space. Those rides are Infinity Coasters, El Locos, RMC Raptors, Zamperla Thunderbolts and most Eurofighters unless LPS can come up with a custom layout of their own. So that rules out a Hydrus clone as its space is too long for any open space in the park.

Interesting that you rule out a Hydrus clone. I looked for this coasters dimensions everywhere and could not find the length or width of this coaster. The height is well within the parameters and looking closely at it, IMHO, it is conceivable that it is able to fit in Maloney's Corner behind Coney Island. If you have the actual dimensions then I would love to know where your source is as even the Gerslauter website does not have that particular model's dimensions, nor does RCDB. Happy to be proven wrong though.

 

9 hours ago, XxMrYoshixX said:

Further a few coasters are also ruled out because it is physically impossible to fit them in the space. Those rides are Infinity Coasters, El Locos, RMC Raptors, Zamperla Thunderbolts and most Eurofighters unless LPS can come up with a custom layout of their own. So that rules out a Hydrus clone as its space is too long for any open space in the park.

That leaves us with just a few coasters that can physically fit the space. Those are SC1000 and SC2000 Spinning coasters from Maurer (the SC2000 will only barely fit into either space) and the smallest off the shelf layout of Gerstlauer Bobsled Coaster (which also barely fits and will need to be cut down slightly). Maybe if LPS gives Maurer a call they could sort them out with a little X-Car like Drayton Manor's G-Force.

This is a video of an SC2000 in action (bear in mind LPS have considered this coaster at least once too)

Its not a stretch  to say that LPS has looked at a Maurer Sohne SC 2000- I have reported that very thing at least 12 months ago. Brad Loxely , the Senior Amusement Park Manager has stated they are the best bang for buck compact coaster going around at the moment ( barring a Eurofughter, which he has ruled out). Given that, plus this evidence from the Pitt and Sherry website, I would say its a fairly strong indication that LPS will get a SC200 Maurer coaster in the very near future. This will probably be located behind Coney Island as the Tumblebug site is just a smidgen too small to accommodate.

This also leaves the reported "Flying Theatre" concept that LPS have filed a DA for. This has been shown to be an amendment to an existing DA and is set to be built on the Flying Saucer site and to replace the current offices adjoining that site. Whether this is a long term project or one that is in their current plans, remains to be seen. In this case , a DA is definitely required as the attraction requires a building and under the proposed amendment, any new attraction requiring a building needs a DA to be lodged.

Given that there is very tight room restrictions, the proposed SEPP outlines where rides and attractions can be placed within the compliant zone that does NOT require a DA. If they were to change any of the other structures such as the Big Top, then this would require planning approval.

The placement of the Hair Raiser ride has always puzzled me, as I have never thought it to be the optimum site to place the ride. If we are looking to maximise the park's existing space , then I would envisage it could be moved in the highlighted section on the map,  adjacent to the Rotor. The Hair Raiser would fit in nicely in this space and would then free up its current site for a larger , more substantial attraction. Alternatively , it could also be placed next to the Tumble Bug ( of which this site is under utilised) but its close proximity to the nearby apartments and neigbours would probably rule this out.

Time will tell but as long as the park gets back on track  with its plans then this can only be positive.

9 hours ago, XxMrYoshixX said:

Alternatively LPS could retrofit the Big Top to have a flat roof rather than the curved circus-style one it has now. I can see that building being due for a refit in 10 years or so because the concert facility doesn't make as much money for the park as it once used to. If in the unlikely event that happened, that opens the door to practically any option under the sun that is under 36m in height...

Where are your sources that say the Big Top does not make money as it once did?? Once again, interested to see this data........

And as AlexB has already eloquently explained further on, the will be no chance of removing or modifying the BIg Top- its far too important to the park as a revenue stream and a function centre.

[19Michael96]

20 hours ago, Jobe said:

This also leaves the reported "Flying Theatre" concept that LPS have filed a DA for. This has been shown to be an amendment to an existing DA and is set to be built on the Flying Saucer site and to replace the current offices adjoining that site. Whether this is a long term project or one that is in their current plans, remains to be seen.

I think this has been withdrawn actually. http://majorprojects.planning.nsw.gov.au/index.pl?action=view_job&job_id=9056

And a sidenote: personally, I'd prefer to have a rollercoaster on the tumblebug site, mainly for the reason that the Big Dipper building is there. I mean, why have a rollercoaster building when you've got no rollercoaster? It's always bugged me. Granted the options are limited due to space but I've always thought they could extend the slab and have the worker's area undercover. Maybe?

[XxMrYoshixX]

On 08/11/2018 at 2:42 AM, Jobe said:

Interesting that you rule out a Hydrus clone. I looked for this coasters dimensions everywhere and could not find the length or width of this coaster. The height is well within the parameters and looking closely at it, IMHO, it is conceivable that it is able to fit in Maloney's Corner behind Coney Island. If you have the actual dimensions then I would love to know where your source is as even the Gerslauter website does not have that particular model's dimensions, nor does RCDB. Happy to be proven wrong though.

Hydrus is a Gerstlauer Eurofighter 320+ model, albeit a modified version without the extra helix added to the end in order to fit on a pier.

The dimensions of this model, at 60m x 38m, even when removing the helix is far too large for any of the big spaces the park has.

That is why I specifically ruled it out because it is physically impossible to fit it in.

Edited November 8, 2018 by XxMrYoshixX