Scooby Doo Over loaded

[mattcrombie]

I went to Movieworld today (bad mistake in holiday season) the park was PACKED....i haven't seen it like that ever before. Anyway, I went on Scooby Doo around 3pm and we had to wait for the elevator to take us up while in the car, then we went backwards we had to wait where that turn table is to start on the turns part. Every section where there was emergency breaks, we stopped, it jolted us every time and stopped us just after the second large drop too. a total of about 6 times. It was a total crap ride, it didnt flow, it kept stopping and you could see all the other cars doing the same, they had a serious problem the attendant said. Weird, anyone had that?

[Flea]

How long did each stop last? Sounds like a blocking issue to me (whether it be too many cars running or a problem with the sensors).

[mattcrombie]

Stopped for about 7 seconds.

[BNErider]

I went there today too! I didn't go on SDSC because it was packed! At one ponit there was a 45min wait!!! I didn't worry, Wild West wasn't too bad. You may have seen my running around the park crazy

[saberon]

couple of reasons i can think of. Block system error where the computer doesn't manage the block system correctly or more likely a slow unload/load time while running all 18 trains will cause a hold up over many trains after the stopped segment and it can turn into a similar situation like having a traffic hold up things take a while to get moving again causing the trains to stop at each block while the train before it clears it own safety block system.

[SupermanEscape]

I went there today too! I didn't go on SDSC because it was packed! At one ponit there was a 45min wait!!! I didn't worry, Wild West wasn't too bad. You may have seen my running around the park crazy

U think thats bad i once had to wait an hour and a half

[BNErider]

Well the lady said it was "at least" 45min. I'm gessing it would have been around 1-1.5 hours wait yesterday. I didn't line up for SDSC. It isn't worth the wait. Wild West was busy, but it got through fast so I just rode that a few times. And for PA!! It was packed!!! Not just did they full the "main grandstand". but Also the side seating too!

[Gazza]

What about for SE and LW?

[BNErider]

My friends were gutless and they didn't want to go on. So we just walked around the parks and watched the shows.

[Adam]

Block system error where the computer doesn't manage the block system correctly

LOL. I don't think that's possible. The block system is a very simple logic system. I don't think there's any room for computational error. It is possible that problems could arise in the physical hardware that makes up the system, i.e. circuit boards, brakes, wheels, sensors... but any of these failing would be catastrophic and put the ride out of action. The delay would've been caused by a slow load/unload time.

[ads086]

I agree with Adam on this one. One car cannot move into a section until the car in front is clear of that section. As far as computational logic, its as simple as: IF block is occupied THEN stop car OTHERWISE let car go When you think about it, theres a maximum of 6 cars in the stations at a time (2 load, 2 wait, 2 unload), and the unload cars can't move into the wait area until the wait cars move forward, which doesn't happen until the load is dispatched. 6 cars in station means 12 running around the track. Assuming there are 2 in the lift, thats 10 cars on the track. Theres 4 cars running around the track prior to the lift, that gives 8 cars to run around the main room/exit track. From what I can tell, the turntable is one block, about half way down the hairpins is another block, the underside of the hairpins forms another block, the last drop is another, and theres at least three in the exit track/room. That means that if the station is loading efficiently, then all cars will run smoothly. I imagine alot of the problem would be young children, and guests who don't understand what's going on. I've seen an attendant almost yell at someone to sit down, or to put their bag on the floor before. Just a side note here: I noticed on the dispatch control box, theres a light with a label "Track Cooldown". Has anyone seen it, or seen it turned on? And what happens when it does?

[saberon]

please do not underestimate the complexity of an 18 train blcoksystem. It combines automated control of friction wheels, brakes turntable with reversing friction wheels and a lift system capable of managing 4 trains at once. Also its not typical block system as far as it runs in a style that 'pairs' trains together for load unload and lift as well as the 2 block segments that come after the final brake run and before the unload segment. because of the pairing ability the block proceed only unless the block ahead is clear isn't really the case. it is more proceed in sync with safety block segment ahead unless block is stopped. if this wasn't the case the trains would have to wait for the block segment to be cleared and would cause further holdups. from what i can tell there is approximately 30 potentially block segments on scoobydoo and each is not a stop/go system. I wouldn't be surprised if there was an occasional computer crash that causes the system to act irratically or stops the ride, certainly i've seen the ride not in operation more than once for a few hours in day for a reason or another.

[Adam]

Cars only appear to travel in pairs because the brakes (or stopping devices) are close together in the station and in the lift. The only rules that apply is that cars cannot touch. The system can only stop vehicles at predefined stopping locations; i.e. at brakes or friction wheels. It just so happens that there are two brakes close together in the lift. So what? It's still only a very simple block system controlling it! Fail-safe electrical systems need to be simple. Simple, simple, simple. Otherwise they are prone to bugs and bugs mean fail-dangerously! I can assure you that the Scooby-Doo block system has never failed, nor do I expect it to. It would almost certainly result in serious injury and/or death. The lift mechanism itself has nothing to do with the block system. It simply monitors the block system to know when to start moving (that is, when the two blocks at the bottom are full and the two blocks at the top are empty). Finally, as for reversing, in terms of block logic, how is it any different from going forward? Does the system know or care that the wheels are moving in reverse? It's just leaving a suitable gap so the cars don't touch.

[saberon]

seriously think you should pay more attention to the way that scoobydoo operates before you underestimate the complexity of this ride. SDSC doesn't operate as per a standard mack wildmouse. It is a beautiful piece of engineering. Trains load in pairs, unload in pairs, are coupled travelling on the lift and have wait periods to allow for separation at first block segment and the block segement after the lift unload where there is one block then 7 metres reverse drop then a brake segment then a turntable fitted with friction wheels which is another block. next time you ride, view the operation of the trains in particular in load and unload and take note that the train behind does not wait until the block segment ahead is clear because the positioning system can detect that the train is in movement ahead so it is ok to proceed.

[Spotty]

Saberon, Adam is right here, just because they load, unload and travel in the elevator in pairs, doesn't mean they are blocked in pairs. The only real modifications to the block system which makes it any different are the blocks telling when the elevators can move. Even then its basically the same. The first car to enter the lift would be the block, then when the 2nd one enters, it would tell the system that the elevator at the bottom is ready to move, and then it checks the top elevator to make sure it's clear (which can result in a 2-3 second delay in moving after the spiel) Then when the lift reaches the top, it just reverses the elevator block thus making car number 2 in the first block so it can reverse out then followed by the 1st car. The load and unload station isn't any different to a normal block system, as it follows the same standard rule, but they are both locked at the same time as the station is able to handle 2 trains, then as soon as 1 is dispatched it continues straight through the ride, and about 15 - 20 secs later the 2nd car is dispatched. The unload procedure is basically the same as the load procedure. As Adam has clearly pointed out these systems are designed not to be complex, because if they are too complex there is more room for error. (such as the 2003 Wild Mouse incident at the Royal Melbourne Show) So all in all, the Scooby Doo Spooky Coaster Block System isn't as complex as it seems.

[Gazza]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was an occasional computer crash that causes the system to act irratically (sic) or stops the ride, certainly i've seen the ride not in operation more than once for a few hours in day for a reason or another.

I dont think It was a computer crash that caused the said incident, obviously if the cars were stopping in the brakes then the system was doing what it was supposed to. Also, just because the ride has been down for a few hours on a few days doesn't mean it was caused by computer problems. I think Occam's Razor is true in this case and people are right in saying that the frequent stops were caused by a hold up in the station. It has a cascade effect sort of like congestion forming on a freeway. The reason it is such a headache is because once trains start stacking it is very difficult to catch up in the station and get trains out of the way so the ones behind have a clear run. They most likely would have just dispatched a bunch of trains empty to save a bit of time and clear the blocks so they could get back into the rhythm. And to end this debate on how the blocks work, well on the main part of the ride it would wait for the block to be clear before letting a train though, but like on most roller coasters with multiple load and unload platforms then the block rules are bent a little and the train behind just tails the one in front when the one in front is dispatched. Millennium Force actually does this with its seperate load and unload station; when the train that has just been loaded is dispatched the empty one behind follows it with a small gap, rather than waiting for the loading station to be completely clear before moving foward. Its a similar thing happening on scooby doo and not a case of trains being "paired", its just to save a bit of time since its fairly safe to have low speed station blocks occupied by more than one train for a second as they both move foward.

[Daniel]

All I can hear is blah blah blah... As for going near the place in the holidays... (Or Qld for that matter for us New South Welshmen) Are you out of your friggen mind?

[Spotty]

It hasn't been that bad... i've been to the park 3 times... all coasters have been running 2 trains.

[James Murray]

The Scooby trains (cars) are paired up for dispatch, lift and unload and lately there have been 16 trains running. 99.9% of the time there are an even number of trains. When dispatched it follows the same rule as all the other blocks (waiting for one to clear before allowing another to enter), it may look as if the rules are being bent a little but the station its self has around 12 separate blocks. The two trains at load will not dispatch until the lapbars on the front and rear train are down (eight in total). As for the delays at each brake set then that is most probably due to station stops as already pointed out. The computer is programmed to eliminate this start/stop problem as the ride starts up after a station stop or indeed a fault needing reset by Tech Services, it holds cars for a couple of seconds to allow the car in front to make some distance, this is called the "stack up delay" and its possible you were in one of the cars which was having the delay(unlucky i guess). This stack up delay comes into effect when cars start to start / stop and is designed to keep the ride flowing smoothly most of the time. If there was a total computer failure then the ride would be 100% safe as each brake set has a Emergency brake which is spring loaded and defaults to closed, even if the air pressure is lost then Emergency brake will close (funny enough the other brakes would open) Hope this clears a few things up

[BNErider]

Thank You James. Good Post

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

I have just returned from an epic drive up to QLD, (im only at coffs now, pit stopping on my way back down) and I will say that despite the QLD holidays finishing, the park was reasonably busy, however MW was prepared for this. Lethal was running both trains, as was SE, although lethal had one removed about lunchtime, so all in all queue times for most of the park were small to non-existent. I did keep this thread in mind when I rode scooby, and having ridden several times throughout the day, and being both in the front of the lift, and the back, I will say that it has to be loading delays in the station. I have never seen Scooby's station with four cars waiting at load point at all times. Usually in the past, as the two at load are having lap bars checked, the doors opened to admit the next two, but this time they were quite literally trailing bumper to bumper, which means that all the station blocks are occupied 95% of the time, a total of 6 cars, and 7 cars just after despatch (while the first car goes through the door, and the second one waits just in front of the load bay) Unload were managing very efficiently, but there were still times where we waited in the brakes run behind the unload section until they could enter the load bay and let us unload. To me the logic is simple. Running Max trains on the track, and having max trains in the station, the final block sections (from hairpins onwards) are going to be trimming the speed of the cars to space them out a bit more. The ghost train section was trouble free (although this raises another point - Scooby ghost train theming is SHOT to pieces - the blades at the camera aren't working, some of the animatronic voices aren't there, the spiel in the lift works only sometimes, and half of the other ghost animatronics have no sound, or lighting, and their timing is EXTREMELY off where it should be) I noticed that on 3 of the brake sections in the wild mouse area that the brakes grabbed the cars. Not to a stop, but to bleed some speed off the trains (I have a habit of moving with the car to throw my weight out on the corners, to try and get a little more speed out of it) but overall, for somebody not mad-crazy about coasters - such as ourselves - the brake trimming would appear normal, and no noticeable difference would be there for someone who doesn't ride it three times a week... so with so many trains on the track, and a slow loading zone, things aren't going to run as fast or as smooth as they usually do in the off peak, but for the general public, it keeps the queue line short, and thats the bottom line for most holidaymakers who won't ride it again for another few years. On the wild mouse theming that has been discussed previously, green lasers in the main room, along with a coloured laser at the lift end appear ok, but the mirrors don't appear to be there anymore. The room is also not as foggy as in the past, but the lasers are still visible. The final laser at the exit point is a disappointment. there is no fog, and just a red light which does not hide the drop at all. I spoke to an unloader in the few short seconds I had and the explaination for the red laser, that I was told was because a green laser in that setup causes more problems for epileptics than a red one. true or not? I don't know. and now for the 7 hour drive home...... see y'all later.

[Gold Coaster]

The final laser at the exit point is a disappointment. there is no fog, and just a red light which does not hide the drop at all. I spoke to an unloader in the few short seconds I had and the explaination for the red laser, that I was told was because a green laser in that setup causes more problems for epileptics than a red one. true or not? I don't know. and now for the 7 hour drive home...... see y'all later.

If that's true then they should do a red fog... it'd still work and look a heck of a lot better than just that lame light.

[TommyDig]

Don't they have warning signs out the front of the ride saying for epileptics not to ride??? Why would they worry about changing it then.

[Adam]

This thread really highlights the difference between a Disney theme park and a non-Disney park. Movie World's business model is all wrong. It shouldn't be about minimal spending to drive profits. It should be about maximum spending to drive profits. I couldn't imagine Walt Disney forgoing the expense of fog juice (or fog machine maintenance) to save a few measly dollars. Scooby-Doo was such an exciting and immersive ride. If they continue letting it deteriorate it'll stop receiving the rave reviews it used to get, resulting in less satisfied customers and ultimately less future sales. (Dreamworld, anyone?) If you are reading this Movie World, just buy some more fog liquid. Please? P.S. To give Movie World some credit, they have been very generous of late with capital expenditure. This is starting to pay off (the park is busier now than what it ever has been) nicely.

[BNErider]

I agree, Adam.