Superman queue possible storage box system

[franky]

Hagrids is a completely different manufacturer though. Do other newer Mack (post Steel Taipan) coasters have RFID verification?

[Spotty]

4 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

How does RFID make anything safer? The only use outside of Australia is for rolling platforms - which we could never cope with. 

Yet we coped with revolving platforms for 15 years on Bermuda... and a rolling platform on Wild West Falls for 20 years so that argument is totally invalid. The RFID is a way to physically confirm that the staff have checked it and to keep a record which is most likely an insurance thing as we all know insurance has gone crazy since TRRR.

[Dean Barnett]

Voltron has them - but it actually locks the row.

[Dean Barnett]

(And it’s a moving platform)

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

17 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

How does RFID make anything safer? The only use outside of Australia is for rolling platforms - which we could never cope with. 

We've been on this merry-go-round with you before. if you're too dense to retain the information explained to you 1000 times before, i'm not sure what hope you have left. 

The RFID has to be scanned within a time limit after the seatbelt is plugged in. This means the operator has to be present at the time the supplemental restraint is attached. This provides the console operator, and the park, with assurance that the restraint is closed and locked correctly and has been checked before dispatch.

They aren't widely used in parks overseas but neither are supplemental restraints (seatbelts), which is what the RFID touch is checking for - so obviously they aren't required on most parks overseas if they don't have seatbelts... 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

[Dean Barnett]

How does the operator being present change anything tho? The belt is either in or out how does a visual inspection + tugging on the seatbelt compared to an attendant watch you doing it make insurance any happier?

[STRAWS]

8 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

How does the operator being present change anything tho? The belt is either in or out how does a visual inspection + tugging on the seatbelt compared to an attendant watch you doing it make insurance any happier?

Are you joking?. Most of these rides have manufacture requirements that team members are instructed to check all belts with a visual inspection and pulling to check the belt is secured. You see it on DC Rivals and ST Mack rides have said The staff have to be the one to plug in the belt riders cant that is in line with their requirements. This doesn't include the Work place rules in Australia.

[Dean Barnett]

Crazy if true. No where else does that where I've been to.

[New display name]

27 minutes ago, STRAWS said:

Are you joking?. Most of these rides have manufacture requirements that team members are instructed to check all belts with a visual inspection and pulling to check the belt is secured. You see it on DC Rivals and ST Mack rides have said The staff have to be the one to plug in the belt riders cant that is in line with their requirements. This doesn't include the Work place rules in Australia.

I don't know about that.

 

From a Bluefire operations manual.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Two different parks - MW and DW - both have a mack coaster, both have seatbelts, which aren't seen on overseas versions of the rides - and both require the operator to do up the seatbelt, regardless of RFID. 

Do you think Daddy Dreamworld and Daddy Movie World got together and said "this will really piss off @Dean Barnett" ??

Or do we think some external compliance requirement has forced them to have seatbelts, and required the operator to do it up?

[Dean Barnett]

1 hour ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Two different parks - MW and DW - both have a mack coaster, both have seatbelts, which aren't seen on overseas versions of the rides - and both require the operator to do up the seatbelt, regardless of RFID. 

I honestly don’t know. The manufacturers don’t require it - they don’t even require seatbelts - which are just there for safety theatre. 
 

Universal actively encourages you to insert and remove your seatbelt (yes different ride manufacturer I know) but it’s just way ott 

[New display name]

1 hour ago, Dean Barnett said:

I honestly don’t know. The manufacturers don’t require it - they don’t even require seatbelts - which are just there for safety theatre. 
 

Seat belts are not intended to be a 3rd safety redundancy on a Mack coaster, for keeping the harness closed.   And seat belts are not installed for theater.   Seat belts max length can't be adjusted by the parks, meaning, over sized people don't end up on the ride. 

Edited May 2 by New display name

[Dean Barnett]

6 minutes ago, New display name said:

Seat belts are not intended to be a 3rd safety redundancy on a Mack coaster, for keeping the harness closed.   And seat belts are not installed for theater.   Seat belts are a fixed length that parks can't adjust, meaning, over sized people don't end up on the ride.

They're not - Helix operated without seatbelts for the first 1 or 2 years - then they were then added due to "guest feedback". 

If you are stating truths - why has Blue Fire ran for 14 years without any issues?

Oversized people can't ride because the ride tells the operator that the harness is not locked - the same for pretty much every coaster system. 

[Gazza]

@Dean Barnett have you ever read AS 3533.1.

I ask because that would answer a lot of questions as to why things are done a certain way in Australia exclusively. 

[franky]

Different regulatory requirements I would guess. 

For example, cars are made differently for Aus markets than say the US market (aside from the steering wheel being in the opposite side); different safety requirements.

I seem to remember being able to put my own seatbelt on on DCR the first time I rode back in 2019ish, do I remember correctly or was I just one of those naughty passengers?

[New display name]

Things change @Dean Barnett

4 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

Oversized people can't ride because the ride tells the operator that the harness is not locked - the same for pretty much every coaster system. 

.   Tell that to Tyre Sampson or every other large person who has fallen off a ride.

 

[Dean Barnett]

No one has answered why a crew member has to put the seatbelt in.. Tyre Sampson is a low blow, that came down to shitty operators/engineers. 

[Spotty]

28 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

No one has answered why a crew member has to put the seatbelt in.. Tyre Sampson is a low blow, that came down to shitty operators/engineers. 

Because it's what is in the training manual, as well as the procedures that staff are trained in. Staff follow procedures that are set out by management. These procedures are created with consultation with several bodies (manufacturer, insurance companies, external auditors etc). Each country has different requirements as multiple other people have stated now. It's not something that is going to change any time soon either.

Although, I personally love the idea that they changed the procedure purely to piss you off tbh.

[New display name]

56 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

No one has answered why a crew member has to put the seatbelt in.. Tyre Sampson is a low blow, that came down to shitty operators/engineers. 

Hence the reason you put seat belts on a ride.  So shiity operators/engineers can't make changes and kill people.

Edited May 2 by New display name

[Dean Barnett]

You can’t compare a drop tower to a roller coaster - also engineers could do a variety of things to compromise safety. 

[mba2012]

16 hours ago, New display name said:

I don't know about that.

 

From a Bluefire operations manual.

The key thing to note here is the second point that states that the push pull "check shall be carried out with the safety belt unfastened". If the belt has been fastened and has no slack, then the pull check won't detect a failed cylinder. Back when guests could insert their own seatbelt, that would very often tighten the belt themselves, so the procedure was changed to what it is now.

Edited May 2 by mba2012

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

16 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

The manufacturers don’t require it

IT'S. AN. AUSTRALIAN. REQUIREMENT.

I think, if I remember correctly, we learned something about this when Buzzsaw had to be retrofitted to be compliant after a risk was found with the buzz restraints. Essentially part of the restraint failed, and there was lots of talk about 'safety layers'.

Something about needing a redundant restraint locking device that did not rely on the same equipment - ie - you can't use a secondary hydraulic cylinder as a backup to your primary hydraulic cylinder, as there is a risk, however minimal, that if one fails, they both do.

The easiest solution to this problem was a seatbelt.

16 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

Universal actively encourages you to insert and remove your seatbelt (yes different ride manufacturer I know)

And also different jurisdiction. When are you going to get it through your head that Australia has different rules and regulations in place and not everything they do overseas can be replicated here?

16 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

which are just there for safety theatre. 

Just one more time - NO. THEY. AREN'T.

 

15 hours ago, Gazza said:

have you ever read AS 3533.1.

Unfortunately organisations that provide these documents don't provide them for free, and the average joe who isn't building amusement devices isn't going to fork out $249 to satisfy curiosity. If anyone has a copy, (i'm assuming section 2.8 would be the relevant section here) feel free to post it.

15 hours ago, franky said:

I seem to remember being able to put my own seatbelt on on DCR the first time I rode back in 2019ish, do I remember correctly or was I just one of those naughty passengers?

It was initially permitted, you're not mistaken. Either someone didn't read the manual correctly and it was pointed out later, or a later audit \ review identified it as an issue and the procedure changed.

15 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

No one has answered why a crew member has to put the seatbelt in

I mean - that pretty much proves you aren't reading the replies in this thread:

18 hours ago, New display name said:

 

Lap bar has to be checked push\pull before seatbelt is secured?

3 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

You can’t compare a drop tower to a roller coaster

Yes you can. Both apply forces to the human body that risk ejection from the ride if the restraint is not properly fitted, and locked. Ironically Tyre Sampson could still be alive today if his harness was fitted with a supplemental seatbelt (even if it were made longer to suit his harness size).

 

[New display name]

1 hour ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Unortunately organisations that provide these documents don't provide them for free, and the average joe who isn't building amusement devices isn't going to fork out $249 to satisfy curiosity. If anyone has a copy, (i'm assuming section 2.8 would be the relevant section here) feel free to post it.

The talk on the street is the standards might soon be freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

SAI Global owns the rights to the Australian Standards, but the the rights are about to run out.   SAI Global also owned the rights to the construction code (NNC) but this lapsed and now it's freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.  

[wikiverse]

5 hours ago, mba2012 said:

The key thing to note here is the second point that states that the push pull "check shall be carried out with the safety belt unfastened". If the belt has been fastened and has no slack, then the pull check won't detect a failed cylinder. Back when guests could insert their own seatbelt, that would very often tighten the belt themselves, so the procedure was changed to what it is now.

 

This comment seems to have slipped under the radar, but it answers the question about staff operating seat belts. So thanks @mba2012 for getting it right.

If the seat belt is fastened and the strap tightened, it interferes with the push/pull procedure, where the 'pull' is just testing the tension of the seat belt, not the primary restraint.  If there is a hydraulic/ratchet restraint failure in such a scenario it wouldn't be detected, and the seat belt would be the only restraint with no redundancy.

The safety standards and codes that govern Amusement rides aren't just for parks.  They're also for traveling rides that experience wear/tear/damage in setup/pack down and transport.  It's one set of rules for every operator and every ride.

So while it's highly unlikely a ride like Rivals or ST would need a seat belt, people can and have been ejected from traveling rides, and severely injured or killed.  Even a ride as mild as TRRR was able to fail in a deadly way, GL also failed in a way that could have been deadly - different rides, different parks, different reasons for failure. 

Every safety standard is written is someone else's blood.  Unlikely things happen.  Operations are never slower because of safety, they are the correct speed to safely operate the ride. 

At Village parks, operations are slower because of corporate culture, under-staffing and, in some cases, poor station design. 

Removing the current locker system at SE won't speed up operations.  It will just move all of the pocket checks to the front of the queue.  SE pulls strong forces where riders are seated with their knees above their hips, which means anything in your pockets will fall out - potentially onto people in the paths below.  So while you could have a better loose article system at the station, guests cannot be trusted to actually empty their pockets or understand the potential consequences of not doing so. For that reason, the park is not likely to change the current station or procedures.

[Mc coaster]

Just gonna leave this here……

Edited May 3 by Mc coaster