Mini Wonderland

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

9000 during construction, 3000 indirectly upon completion. The closer permnanent figure for the actual Wonderland site, considering the bulky goods style facility likely to be put there, would be closer to 300 or 500 employees "on site" and perhaps another couple of hundred in trucks. Now thats not much more than Wonderland was doing, is it. A very detailed study would be needed. Blacktown Council is now standing up and taking notice of our plight, I might add. More news later. ZordMaker

Wait a minute..... a very reliable source of Shifty's told me they will be directly employing 6 million people after the site is completed, and that we have had contact from the nearby Crab Nebula, where the emporor of the Planet WZuschek would like to build an interstellar superhighway to offer a commute for approximately 1.7 million WZuschekians to come and work at the site too...

[Gazza]

Here is what could be built to Replace WL, The park is on a 100 x 150 m site and I have managed to fit in 21 attractions. This would go perfectly with the previously mentioned Commercial site with large stores etc. The park would have more space to expand along (maybe another 100m across and another 150m up) with the potential to install other exiting but space efficient rides, eg a Rocket Coaster or a Shoot the Chute (minus the vertical drop, too unsafe). The Rides:1) G2 (Intamin Gyro Drop) 2) Canyon Rafter (Intamin River Rapids) 3) Funny Frog (Zamperla Jumping Star) 4) Man Overboard (Interactive Rides Sky skater) 5) Fire Rescue (Zamperla Fire Brigade) 6) Battering Ram (Huss Rainbow) 7) Play zone (Megatoy Playground) 8) Goofy Greens (Mini Golf) 9)Disco Whirl (Huss Breakdance) 10) Spinsanity (Maurer Sohne Spinning Wild Mouse) 11) Vulcan (Huss Topspin) 12) Fireball Frenzy (B&M Floorless Coaster) 13) Jungle Jeeps (Car Ride) 14) Satellite Spin (Zamperla Mini Jet) 15) Tornado (Intamin Impulse Coaster) 16) The Virus (Intamin Suspended Twin Hammers) 17) Mechanical Mayhem (Zamperla Disk-O) 18) Mini Jetter (Mack powered coaster) 19) Sewer Rat (Proslide Madeira series) 20) Immersion (Intamin Simulator) 21) Traffic Jam (Zamperla Dodgems) Red Diagonal stripes are food/gift shops and Blue Diagonal Stripes are Queue areas. Red numbers are Thrill Rides, Yellow numbers are Family Rides and Green numbers are Childrens rides. Also, just to clear it up, Fireball Frenzy and mini jetter are a minimum of 6m off the ground, so the space below is usable and the supports would be enginneered to be unobtrusive, but inevitably there would be supports in the middle of paths etc. but they could be sued for lamp posts, banners, signage etc. Alsp Spinsatiny is atop a building (red strides) and traffic jam is above the Disco Whirl. The small yellow line in the bottom left corner repesents a distance of 5m. This could work as a 200 x 300m site could be found somewhere in the west without too much dificulty and cost.

[GoGoBoy]

Nice use of space there Gazza. I love looking over your drawings, no matter how unrealistic they might be. Obviously there would be a lot of issues to look at with that park but it does show you how a lack of space can be worked around. It makes you realise that the Luna Park's can't really use 'space' as an argument for not installing decent rides. Even though we know they have already used that argument in the past

[Gazza]

What have I done unrealistic in this? I drew it to scale and went to all the manufacturer web sites and other sources and got the proper dimensions. This park may get crowded though as its paths are around 10-15m wide but this has been countered with high capacity rides.

[GoGoBoy]

When I mentioned unrealistic I was referring to things like the viability of the park (there would be huge set up costs with all those rides to start with not to mention the staff to run them) plus the operations of the park. In particular what you mentioned about crowd levels. You would need massive crowds to keep a park like that profitable. But apart from that I really like it as I said so don't take my thoughts as a criticism. It would be interesting to discuss whether a park like this could work. We're on the subject of 'Mini Wonderland' though so it would be interesting to see plans for a park similar to the one you have created but set on Zordmaker's proposed 'Mini Wonderland' site. You would have to take into account the existing attractions and infrastructure that are to be re-used and maybe expand on that with some of the attractions and designs you came up with. Grab a map of Wonderland and use that as a reference. Just a suggestion but I'd be interested to see it

[zordmaker]

We're on the subject of 'Mini Wonderland' though so it would be interesting to see plans for a park similar to the one you have created but set on Zordmaker's proposed 'Mini Wonderland' site. You would have to take into account the existing attractions and infrastructure that are to be re-used and maybe expand on that with some of the attractions and designs you came up with. Grab a map of Wonderland and use that as a reference. Just a suggestion but I'd be interested to see it

Hey man, I just might win the $23m tonight. Then we'll see what happens at "Wonderland"... :-) ZordMaker

[Bussy]

Great design Gazza but there are a few things missing as far as I can tell. Where is the 'back of house' area? There needs to be a place for the administration staff, also the maintenance area, the staff room and associated things that go with this. I know that you wouldn't include these in a design like yours but if you have a confined space to work with you have to think of them. One thing that stood out on that plan was a lack of 'facilities'. Where are the crowds going to go when they need to use the toilet? I've got an idea that would make Zordy proud, use the surrounding factories facilities, they aren't going to be used on the weekend. Zordy do you think that $23 million would be enough to resurrect Wonderland in another form? I think that that would leave you about $100 million short by my calculations. "The Bus is now leaving for Calculation Hill, Tasmania"

[Gazza]

Generaly, the toilets would be inside the buildings (Red Stripes) or would be underground facilities like in the city (Except for baby change and disabled for obvious reasons) Really should have marked them in , They would possibly go under Fireball Frenzys station, Under Tornado's station, in the large building under Spinsanity, one in the building beside G2, in the main entrance building, underneath sewer rat and underneath man overboard.The maitnence side of things would add maybe 20m to the length of the park, but I was mainly concerntrating on the ride area so it wasnt added. As for administration, I had already considered that, and it would be on a 2nd and possibly 3rd floor above the entrance building. Staff room would also be in the admin building and a smaller one in the building beside G2. As for the set up costs, Ill have to calculate them. Could someone give me rough costs for Topspins, Breakdances, double hammers, wild mouses etc, maybe Zord could use my design as part of his campaign. If you want me to do a design using the existing WL, prehaps measure out a plan showing locations and waht I have to work with, and Im NOT re using demon.

[GoGoBoy]

I think your Demon exclusion is a wise choice. Do we have a map image of Wonderland on one of these forums? You could just use the illustrated map from the old brochures as a reference but unfortunately I don't have a scanner. Would be interesting to see an expansion of the The Beach area as this is one of the few areas I feel could be viable (agreeing with one of joz's earlier comments I think). So basically the infrastructure you'd be looking at keeping would be the existing beach slides and pools, bush beast, snowy river rampage and maybe some of the pathways and existing shops, food outlets and toilets. Anything I'm missing? You could then add in a number of the rides and attractions you created for your park, keeping the space constraints in mind. Also a new entrance and associated buildings would be needed. This could be fun. Mind you though I am only interested in this for the sake of alleviating my boredom and am not thinking it could become a reality (sorry zordy!)

[zordmaker]

Zordy do you think that $23 million would be enough to resurrect Wonderland in another form? I think that that would leave you about $100 million short by my calculations. QUOTE] All I need is a few Million as security against the massive bank loan that would be needed to resurrect Wonderland. This is Business we're talking here remember. I'm not about buying the land back off ING, merely creating something that will yield them a similar rent per hectare as their current plans. And yes, a smaller park packed with the latest rides would definitely suit that quota. I should have also said that in "Mini Wonderland" it is likely that a "sideshow alley" space would be set aside for semi permanent portable rides (such as the Claw, Rainbow, YoYo etc etc) and deals done with owners to "park" the rides there when they weren't in use elsewhere. Just another idea, thats all. As for Staff amenities, toilets etc, it has been mentioned here that it is inappropriate to place public spaces below roller coasters for safety reasons (which is true). But nobody said anything about using the space for other "back of house" services. You could fit a veritable feast of ramshackle buildings under and around Bush Beast for the purpose. I wouldnt be advocating using neighbouring Industrial sites for facilities.. but there is the possibility that weekend "overflow parking" could be arranged with a few neighbours who otherwise find their front parking lots empty at those times. Basically a small parking lot for WL itself (less than 500 cars) and the rest of 'em either come by shuttle bus, or park in the street and walk. Lazy bastards, they need more excercise anyway. Keep up the good ideas guys. I'm going to get around to getting some _scale_ plans of the old Wonderland (or at least aerial photos). That should make this all a bit easier. p.s. the most difficult thing to do in all this is to estimate "real" expected attendance numbers using facts (from overseas or from the Gold Coast) as a guide. Certainly addigna few more "brand new" latest rides to the miniaturised park would make it far more viable than just having a "wet and wild" local swimming hole. Remember - no Themes, no Shows, no Superheroes, just Maximum Fun and Thrills for minimum Dollars. Basically a Summer showcase of rides. Thats the idea behind MWL. ZordMaker

[zordmaker]

As for administration, I had already considered that, and it would be on a 2nd and possibly 3rd floor above the entrance building. Staff room would also be in the admin building and a smaller one in the building beside G2.

I might add that space for Back of House and Admin is not that important in the calculations. That can easily be accomodated in some of the "To Let" Industrial units next door :-) ZordMaker

[zordmaker]

I think your Demon exclusion is a wise choice.   Would be interesting to see an expansion of the The Beach area as this is one of the few areas I feel could be viable   This could be fun. Mind you though I am only interested in this for the sake of alleviating my boredom and am not thinking it could become a reality (sorry zordy!)

The Beach could use a "real" Swimming pool to make it more viable, i.e. a 50m Olympic size lap pool, possibly heated to extend the season (not a covered all year rounder though). Also the throughput capacity for the Water Tube needs serious treatment. This ride is always packed and the waiting times of over an hour are unacceptable in MWL. With these added and an entrance fee below $10 per head, the Beach would be viable in it's own right. But out the rides next to it, bump up the price to $15 and add some good eateries, and you've just made a "few hours" experience into a "whole day" one which will draw more customers and keep them there to buy Lunch and Dinner. I only suggested keeping Demon because of the obviously low cost when compared with buying a brand new coaster, and I certainly wouldn't bid for it against someone else who wanted it bad for their own park. But I do agree, it would be more viable to buy at least _one_ brand new, very large and "wow factor" ride for MWL to kick it off and give it status. Demon could be dismantled and stashed for a few years, then (eventually) reassembled 10 years later, repainted and called something else. 80% of the visiting Public (except of course for ride junkies like you find here) would not be able to tell the difference:-) Of course if it were my choice, that would be a copy of PKI's "Son of Beast"... :-) Zordmaker

[zordmaker]

maybe some of the pathways and existing shops, food outlets and toilets.

I woudnt keep any of the old Public facilities myself, they're all in poor condition and waaaay life expired. Redeveloping MWL would mean new services (eg sewer) to the site entering in different locations to the current ones. People demand far better personal facilities from Public Spaces nowadays. The facilities would need to be "first class", spacious and clean to win customers and keep 'em coming back. ZordMaker

[Daniel]

Reassemble Demon 10 years later? That would make it about 30, give or take. It's stuffed now, you've got to be joking... I love your passion though old son! Go brother!

[zordmaker]

Reassemble Demon 10 years later?  That would make it about 30, give or take.  It's stuffed now, you've got to be joking... I love your passion though old son!  Go brother!

Who said it was stuffed? Bush Beast, now THAT's stuffed. (Will take around $1m to bring back to standard I think) Needs new track, complete paint of entire structure & replace splintered timbers, dissassemble & rebuild lift, Refurbish station. Demon is fine. New coat of paint, new carriage wheels and new brakes and it'll be like a brand new coaster. ZordMaker.

[Daniel]

Demon is fine. New coat of paint, new carriage wheels and new brakes and it'll be like a brand new coaster.

OK mate. :cool:

[zordmaker]

OK mate.  :cool:

You've got a different opinion? Lest hear it. Whats _really_ wrong with Demon, then? ZordMaker

[GoGoBoy]

In regards to the admin facilities and renting out nearby space to accomodate them (ie. not actually in the park itself). I have a feeling that Luna Park does this. I know they do have a smallish admin building on site behind the Flying Saucer but I think they might also rent out some offices up the road. Not totally sure about this but I think it might be the case

[Gazza]

You've got a different opinion? Lest hear it. Whats _really_ wrong with Demon, then? ZordMaker

Id rather use the space for an Invertigo and as people have said, Demon has had its day and its not a great ride. In regards to saftey issues with coasters above public areas, well what about Corkscrew? Or any other of the many coasters around that run above paths. If you really wanted to be safe then nets would be the go and an absolute no item policy.

[Nightshifter]

i rekon its quite easy for someone to peg a rock at the people on th ecorkscrew whilst doing the corkscrews, aint that hard expecially when the rides above a path

[zordmaker]

Id rather use the space for an Invertigo and as people have said, Demon has had its day and its not a great ride. In regards to saftey issues with coasters above public areas, well what about Corkscrew? Or any other of the many coasters around that run above paths. If you really wanted to be safe then nets would be the go and an absolute no item policy.

Lets put it this way: if nobody wants it then why not use it somewhere. But I wouldnt bid for it. Your kind of right though I guess. Why spend $1.2m relocating Demon when you can probably get something really good "off the shelf" for $5m, and then sell Demon to some other park that has nothing at all and is just looking for something to fill in some space. Its not the kind of ride you come back for again and again, granted. Going backwards is a real hurl turner for some.. including me. I prefer to see where Im going. ZordMaker.

[Bussy]

I wouldnt be advocating using neighbouring Industrial sites for facilities.. but there is the possibility that weekend "overflow parking" could be arranged with a few neighbours who otherwise find their front parking lots empty at those times. Basically a small parking lot for WL itself (less than 500 cars) and the rest of 'em either come by shuttle bus, or park in the street and walk. Lazy bastards, they need more excercise anyway.

So what is going to happen during the busiest times of year for any amusement park (school holiday time)? The businesses around there aren't going to close down during these times to allow for visitors to park in their carparks. The council and probably the state government would never allow a situation like that to happen, so you had better come up with a solution. By the way how did winning the $23 million go? What was wrong with Demon? The question should be what's not wrong. It was mechanically on its last legs, the track was in very poor condition and I don't mean that it needed a lick of paint there were structural problems as well. Constant problems with the carriages. Besides that not much was wrong with Demon.

i rekon its quite easy for someone to peg a rock at the people on th ecorkscrew whilst doing the corkscrews, aint that hard expecially when the rides above a path

Don't worry about people throwing things at the ride, what about people dropping things off the rides, things like cameras. But then again that would never happen would it Rich? "The Bus is now leaving for Dropmore, Victoria"

[Daniel]

Just because Demon didn't break down with you on it Zord, means the ride is ok yeah? Take it from a couple of people that were there 5 days a week for a long time that it's a s**tbox. Their not so old train has a fair share of problems too. The ride getting stuck on lift 2 almost on a multiple daily occurence. The train being released early on lift 1. Oh yeah and the classic of coat hanger wire being used as a conductor in the motor room. Mate there's not enough room on Richard's site to keep going. From my post and Wonderbus's you should be getting a fair idea.

[Richard]

Nightshifter, when placing rides over pathways etc., it would be a bit absurd to think that they're thinking about people throwing things at rides. I think it's safe to say that people are as likely to chuck a rock at a coaster train as they are to chuck them at complete strangers on the street.

Don't worry about people throwing things at the ride, what about people dropping things off the rides, things like cameras. But then again that would never happen would it Rich?

I don't know if it would never hapen, because it does happen. All I do know is that it will never happen when it's something of mine, on a ride that allows loose objects. I can't speak for other riders, and I can say that if the ride doesn't allow cameras, then I won't be there with a camera (and I very, very rarely actually take a camera on a ride which does allow them). I'm sure in the situation of a ride being situated largely over open areas such as footpaths or other rides, the park would have a no items policy. I'm happy, you're happy and finally at last those poor pedestrians under the ride are finally relieved of the terror of this seemingly endless flow of cameras and phones from the ride as they literally pour from the hands and pockets of guests onboard. Daniel, those issues you mentioned are very common with almost all Vekoma Boomerangs, and hardly a sign of a ride on the brink of collapsing everytime a butterfly lands on it. As for "coat hanger wire" being used - well that's not too hard to fix, is it? So long as it's not replacing a resistor or similar, I see no electrical reason that that could cause faults - resistance might be a bit higher than intended, but you're not going to start a fire or electrocute anyone. I don't think Demon is worth keeping, but because it's not a great ride. You've also got to think of the viability of keeping old Wonderland rides. Sydney's been riding that thing for 13 years - they'll need a few more reasons to come to this place, and Bush Beast's not on that list either. Come to think of it, Eastern Creek's probably also not found on that list anywhere either.

[zordmaker]

So what is going to happen during the busiest times of year for any amusement park (school holiday time)?  The businesses around there aren't going to close down during these times to allow for visitors to park in their carparks.  The council and probably the state government would never allow a situation like that to happen, so you had better come up with a solution.  By the way how did winning the $23 million go?

Only overflow parking outside. Enough on site parking will be provided for regular school holidays. Extra parking will be arranged for Public Holidays, when available in surrounding areas. A Shuttle bus service will also run. Hmm.. know anyone who rents out buses?..Ones that are Wonderful?...:-)

What was wrong with Demon?  The question should be what's not wrong.  It was mechanically on its last legs, the track was in very poor condition and I don't mean that it needed a lick of paint there were structural problems as well.  Constant problems with the carriages.  Besides that not much was wrong with Demon.

Well, nice of you to give me that information, but I think I'll take an expert opinion once one is offered. The Auction process should be an ideal opportunity to inspect the goods and have a condition report prepared. Basically as far as I am concerned the Demon was and still is in "operating condition". There has been no mention anywhere of track or structural problems. Keep the thread going guys.. ZordMaker