Sky Voyager Discussion

[Archer]

On 09/04/2019 at 6:50 AM, pushbutton said:

My main concern is how completely pathetic that sort of thing makes Parkz look to anyone who happens to look at the forum. That includes people who actually hold senior positions with theme parks! 

Sadly, they must think we're all immature, and very unintelligent. 

I am really trying to bit my tongue on this one. ‘They’ don’t all think that, some are very frustrated with decisions made by a those above them........apparently. 😐 

[Jobe]

2 hours ago, AlexB said:

On 08/04/2019 at 5:31 PM, pushbutton said:

I apologise to anyone intelligent on behalf of Skeeta for the above post. 

That's insulting @Skeeta

 

2 hours ago, AlexB said:

On 09/04/2019 at 6:50 AM, pushbutton said:

Just to avoid any doubt, I personally do not find it funny or amusing when people 

- Portray me as some sort of fool, or a kid.

You mean like inferring that someone isn't intelligent?

 

There's an awful lot of black kettles here folks.

To put things into perspective with this comment though, this was not the escalation post, this was Push's response to a previous post which he found insulting  and returned salvo on. There is always a starting point and you cannot just pick bits from the middle and infer that this was the nexus point where things went south.

In this case it wasn't.

Lets not muddy the waters here. 

I am not saying this to take sides for either views, I am just weary of these sort of posts that inhabit these boards at times. They are neither needed or required.  I get that there are egos and arrogance involved and your "standing" or "pecking order" on the board is displayed- however-

I say this to everyone- just don't be a prick and the board will sort itself out. 

Accountability for these type of posts must be taken by ALL involved.

Finally this:

Quote

Hello, have not posted for a while but enjoying the banter ..not the bullying.

When  this sort of message gets posted in the wake of this last series of posts , you then can see the size of the issue that can affect the boards. The fact that a long time reader that has not posted for , in his own words, "a while", can recognise some of the posts here and call it for what it is, despite denials or deflections from others, should ring alarm bells for all involved on the forums.

This absolutely supports the view that @iwerks brought up a  while ago

Quote

 I know a few people who would post on here if it wasn’t such an antagonistic environment.

Now I am sure that this view or opinion that I have aired will cause some outrage  for a select few. Thats ok- sometimes civil discussion can cause that.

What I do hope is that this does not evolve into a "running joke" with needling comments that pop up in other posts from time to time. ( As they have in the past)

I think its a serious issue and one that should be taken on its merits and I feel that a growing number of contributors and posters on this board are fully recognising this.

At the end of the day, we all love theme parks and the amusement industry. This is a fantastic forum and platform in which we can indulge and interact with other like minded individuals.

I guess on the back of this. we all need to think a little harder ( including me) on how and what we post. This has certainly been an enlightening experience for me and I hope that it does get noticed.

I would hate to think how many other potential posters or future members of the forum are holding back or intimidated from sharing because of these actions. Hopefully , we can encourage more and more people to join and let OUR community grow with out fear of the shackles that have held them back previously.

Cheers guys.

[pushbutton]

Great points, very well articulated there Jobe!

[New display name]

@JobeThe word "bullying" has lost all meaning here because people like “@(&” use it as it an attack on others when they are losing a debate.    Everything I wrote was a joke and the people that laughed got it.  I only used Push because his name was on the bin.  If your name was on the bin guess what.  The joke would have been about you.  It’s a joke.  Some people here believe they can run a theme park from a chat room.  I say lighten up and have some fun.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Skeeta

[joz]

Push and Alex are welcome to block each other.

[New display name]

2 hours ago, Archer said:

I am really trying to bit my tongue on this one. ‘They’ don’t all think that, some are very frustrated with decisions made by a those above them........apparently. 😐 

I don't give a flying toot what DW management think of me.   I'm DW's customer not the other way around and I'm defiantly not here to suck up to any theme park.😉

[Brad2912]

Meh. No one has been bullied. Sick of people throwing that word around who have no clue what bullying truly is, and how the inaccurate use of it to describe someone who simply disagrees with you and provides a reason for it, just dilutes it (thanks for the 6 month delayed fountain you just threw me for the last time I commented about this in another post @Jobe).

My dad told me something when I was younger that has always stayed with me - no one will take the time to bother to criticise, insult or tease you if they didn’t care about you or what you have to say. If they didn’t care, they’d simply ignore you. (Or block you these days). 

Take a bit of ribbing or banter for what it is, and don’t let the thoughts & comments of people who you have no real relationship with affect you in a negative way 

 

 

[New display name]

33 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

Sick of people throwing that word around who have no clue what bullying truly is, and how the inaccurate use of it to describe someone who simply disagrees with you and provides a reason for it, just dilutes it

Bullying is not the same as conflict between people (like having a fight) or disliking someone.

@Jobe@iwerks@pushbutton You might think yourself as the antibullying crusaders but all you are doing is harming people who really get bullied.  Not to different from the people who jump into the pools at SW to save the dolphins.  I know you guys mean well but I think you need more education on what bullying is.

 

People do fight & people do dislike each other all the time.

Edited April 10, 2019 by Skeeta

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

If you think you are being bullied, block the other person and that will be the end of it. If you don’t and continue to argue and call them out for what you think is bullying, do it in your own thread in the chit chat section of these boards so things don’t go off topic.

[Whombex]

2 hours ago, joz said:

Push and Alex are welcome to block each other.

 

3 minutes ago, Gold Coast Amusement Force said:

If you think you are being bullied, block the other person and that will be the end of it. If you don’t and continue to argue and call them out for what you think is bullying, do it in your own thread in the chit chat section of these boards so things don’t go off topic.

Blocking someone doesn't stop them being abused/bullied, just because they can't see it. 

 

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

4 minutes ago, Glubbo said:

 

Blocking someone doesn't stop them being abused/bullied, just because they can't see it. 

 

Well it does because they don’t even know the bullying exists..

Edited April 10, 2019 by Gold Coast Amusement Force

[iwerks]

10 minutes ago, Gold Coast Amusement Force said:

Well it does because they don’t even know the bullying exists..

It helps, but if someone quotes it, you can still see it.

@Skeeta - you’re having a go at someone for their love of Bermuda Triangle. How logical is that?

[New display name]

NO I'm not.

[joz]

Yeah this is a tree falling in a forest Zen philosophy sort of thing. It's the interactions between the 2. Normally one will say something, the other will argue because internet and theyll both back and forth until name calling. Blocking isn't a perfect solution but it would make the earlier stages harder to achieve.

[Park Addict 93]

Can we just try and stick to the community Guidelines people? It's quite simple (not that I have always followed them).

Quote

A friendly and helpful attitude is expected at all times.

You aren't expected to like everyone, but you are expected to treat all members with respect at all times.

Back on topic... This seems to serve as fairly good confirmation that issues are being rectified in order for the ride to be signed off.

 

[Jobe]

3 hours ago, Skeeta said:

@JobeThe word "bullying" has lost all meaning here because people like “@(&” use it as it an attack on others when they are losing a debate.    Everything I wrote was a joke and the people that laughed got it.  I only used Push because his name was on the bin.  If your name was on the bin guess what.  The joke would have been about you.  It’s a joke.  Some people here believe they can run a theme park from a chat room.  I say lighten up and have some fun.

Skeeta this isnt about anyone who loses a debate. I understand that what you first posted was meant to be a joke and in all honesty I get that. However, Push obviously was a little offended by it and then responded. However, it was when AlexB posted AFTER that, with the very post that WAS removed ( ostensibly by the mods ) was when , for me , the line was crossed.  You have to ask yourself- why was that particular post removed when the others remained? All you can draw from it was that it was offensive and went against the Community guidelines.

Now this is not just about Push but lets use him as an example. Is this the FIRST instance of where posts have been pointed and directed at him in a demeaning way?  Have there been comments made within posts that have been said in a derogatory tone in reference to him? The answer is obviously no as we have all seen posts as I have described that I would say falls under these banners.

I am happy to have a joke- don't get me wrong. I have been on these boards for longer than most and I have seen a lot of instances and posts where the community guidelines are nowhere near followed .  I come here for my enjoyment and for fun, to indulge in a love of mine- one that we all share. I agree if we all lightened up about certain things the board would be far more friendlier but this goes for proponents of both sides of this debate. 

Tone and context is everything.

47 minutes ago, Glubbo said:

 

Blocking someone doesn't stop them being abused/bullied, just because they can't see it. 

 

17 minutes ago, joz said:

Yeah this is a tree falling in a forest Zen philosophy sort of thing. It's the interactions between the 2. Normally one will say something, the other will argue because internet and theyll both back and forth until name calling. Blocking isn't a perfect solution but it would make the earlier stages harder to achieve.

3 hours ago, joz said:

Push and Alex are welcome to block each other.

You are absolutely right here Joz and they both certainly can. But at best it's a bandaid solution as you have correctly intimated later. It doesnt remove the problem. Bullying behaviour is all about having and showing power over another individual (especially in this case, a public forum) and if the subject of that bullying blocks someone , the antagonist simply moves their behaviour onto someone else. It does not change.

2 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

(thanks for the 6 month delayed fountain you just threw me for the last time I commented about this in another post @Jobe).

Not a problem. Seeing that I had just read said post is the reason for it now being given. I disagree with your premise , hence the fountain. That's why the capability is there is it not?

2 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

Meh. No one has been bullied. Sick of people throwing that word around who have no clue what bullying truly is, and how the inaccurate use of it to describe someone who simply disagrees with you and provides a reason for it, just dilutes it

Respectfully I disagree. I dont think that this word has been thrown around willy nilly either- this is in response to instances that have happened over a great deal of time. Not just one instance. Many.

Let me be clear this is NOT about someone who has JUST had a disagreement. This is about the sustained and numerous instances where someone has been villified not just for posting an opinion, but in some cases, for posting at all, and all the derision that  numerous cohorts can muster with that.

Also its irrelevant that you think its not bullying. If the person in question feels offended or that there is an issue, then that is the overriding context. You cant speak on behalf of how someone feels because you are not them and you are not in there situation.

To post the view that no one else know's what bullying is ( except you apparently) is nothing short of sheer  arrogance.

The only thing diluted here is your perception of what bullying actually is, in my opinion.

7 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

Take a bit of ribbing or banter for what it is, and don’t let the thoughts & comments of people who you have no real relationship with affect you in a negative way 

I have no issue with good natured ribbing or banter. Its when malicious intent and underlying tone changes banter into something else that i have issue with.

Just because someone  doesnt  know you personally  doesnt mean what you say about about them on social media or forums  cannot hurt or damage them in some way. YOU may be ok and I may be ok and able to handle situations  like this but guess what? We are all different and we all react differently. 

6 hours ago, Skeeta said:

Bullying is not the same as conflict between people (like having a fight) or disliking someone.

People do fight & people do dislike each other all the time.

I agree here Skeeta. Bullying is not the same as when there is a conflict or fighting between 2 parties.

I hate to go to a dictionary meaning of bullying , but it comes in many, many forms.

To be a bully:

Quote

a blustering, quarrelsome, overbearing person who habitually badgers and intimidates smaller or  weaker people. 

Furthermore, acts of bullying can be if:

Quote

the behavior is aggressive and include:

• An Imbalance of Power: People who bully use their power—such as physical strength, access to embarrassing information, or popularity—to control or harm others. Power imbalances can change over time and in different situations, even if they involve the same people.
• Repetition: Bullying behaviors happen more than once or have the potential to happen more than once.

According to the national advocacy group, Stomp Out Bullying, the act of bullying can come in several forms:

• Cyberbullying is one or a group of people using electronic means via computers and mobile phones (emails, social media sites, chat rooms, instant messaging,forums and texting) to torment, threaten, harass, humiliate, embarrass or target another person.

Now there have been actions and posts towards other posters that can definitely  fall under one or all of these banners. I have seen it and  there are other posters that have recognised this , independently  and on their own.

We have already seen evidence that there are people who are intimidated from posting on these boards at times, because of these actions. That seems to have been ignored amidst the rest of the debate.

 

7 hours ago, Skeeta said:

@Jobe@iwerks@pushbutton You might think yourself as the antibullying crusaders but all you are doing is harming people who really get bullied.  Not to different from the people who jump into the pools at SW to save the dolphins.  I know you guys mean well but I think you need more education on what bullying is.

 

I am not sure what you are getting at here- HOW are we harming people who really get bullied?  By having the courage to call out behaviour that can sometimes appear on these boards? By pointing out through civil discussion and debate that bullying practices and techniques do and have existed on the Parkz forums?  Then I guess we are all guilty as charged. 

It was never going to be a popular view with certain people, cliques and circles on this board.

I must say, I am a little flabbergasted at the lack of affinity that can be shown on these boards at times. This is one of them.

I am not advocating for either side here, nor do I think of myself as a crusader ( as you have stylised me and others)   I am, however,  just standing up for what I think is right, to try and enact some positive change.

Please do not misunderstand me here- I understand completely that there will be arguments and people on these boards will have disagreements and differences of opinions  from time to time.That's normal. As has been shown, this could be one of those times

The behaviour I have described as happening, however, is completely different. 

If by posting this view, one person takes this on board and posts with a little more empathy , then in my mind, that will be a positive thing. I guess we will also see , after airing this view, how I will be treated now on these boards moving forward. 

What I do not want to see is bullying or bullying behaviour be trivialised or water downed upon detecting or identifying.

My final point is that I am not the only one that has felt the growing undercurrent of tension that can inhabit certain posts that are directed at certain posters. There are several who have arrived more or less to the same viewpoint , independently ,as they have viewed certain interactions on these boards. This is not just a one person view. Its something that IS happening and has been exposed by several other people. We have certainly heard from some in this debate. How many more remain silent?

I say again to all what I posted before;

 Don't be a prick and the board will sort itself out. 

Accountability for these type of posts must be taken by ALL involved.

 

 

 

[Brad2912]

@Jobe I generally enjoy your posts and input on this forum, and I can genuinely say that applies to pretty much everyone involved except for the annoying overseas guy wanting photos of SDSC 2.0. People who have differing or left field ideas, interests or opinions to the majority, or challenge the norm, are always going to be open to more questioning, banter and spotlight than others, that’s generally how most of society works, irrespective of if you are on a forum, in a lunchroom in an office or on a worksite.

In “the real world” people learn to accept and embrace that they see things through a slightly different lense, and generally the banter and jokes they receive are taken in the spirit through which they are delivered. Unfortunately in the online world the ability to decipher intent, tone, sarcasm etc are entirely personal as you don’t have human cues or online ears to hear delivery. Therefore your inner voice or the way you perceive things naturally - be that positively, negatively or indifferently - can determine how you perceive the intent of a text comment.

I’ve never met a single person on this forum and have no idea if Alex is a 12 year old girl or Skeet is a 90 year old war veteran, to me they are people who my mind determines are probably not so different to me in the real world. That could be spot on or possibly could not be further from the truth. I’m here to have fun, share a passion, expand my knowledge and experience things through others accounts of their experiences. I’d like to think everyone else here is as well, so therefore when banter that I could understand could offend pops up, I make a rationale decision that it’s not intended to be as such, as why would it be? Why would anyone here want to personally hurt, upset, “bully” anyone? I don’t think they would, so I don’t try to find that outcome in what I am reading. Look for the good in people, not the bad. 

This forum isn’t overly moderated, which is amazing, as I’m a member of many that are and they are not enjoyable. If the mods think something goes beyond banter, joking or ribbing, or believe that it could be perceived to be, I have faith that it would be deleted and the person warned. 

[Jobe]

@Brad123 thanks for your post. It was a balanced and well thought out response. 

I certainly agree in principle with what you have stated, in an overarching sense.

i guess what it does come down to is interpretation. As you say,  it’s very easy to misdiagnose intent on a public forum at times.

i guess by talking about these key issues and how some people perceive how and why things are posted , we can all be better educated and I suppose better armed at dealing with these instances as they arise.

If it helps in clearing up any misunderstandings and preventing these from occurring then this is the positive impact that I mentioned.

Also,, just to be clear, in what I was referring to was not meant to highlight JUST Push, Skeeta or Alex, nor paint them in the light as being the only recipients or  antagonists of these issues. There were certainly examples involving them but it was not meant to limit nor target these 3 posters as being the root cause. It is also not meant to reduce the numerous positive contributions that all 3 have made on the board either., which in my mind , far out weigh any perceived negatives 

I realise this is a sensitive topic and only through civil discourse and debate can we clear the waters and find the common ground we all seek.

Cheers for that- I think there has definitely been enough said about this topic and I am certain we can all move on to what we come here to do- to indulge in the passion and love that is theme and amusement parks in general. 👍

[Thrill Seeker]

Quote

PSA ENGINEERING

Since the establishment of our firm in 1981, PSA Engineering has continuously provided professional engineering services specialized in Civil and Transportation Engineering, Architectural planning, and Construction Management Services. PSA Engineering has capability to perform the following planning and engineering services: Land Use Planning Transportation & Logistic System Planning Traffic Study & Signal Design Airport Pavement Design Airfield Lighting & Navigational System Design Hangars & Ramp Design Terminal & Cargo Facilities Design Roadway Design Drainage Design Park & Recreation Facilities Design Water & Wastewater System Design Solid Waste Disposal Study Healthcare Design Commercial & Industrial Design Residential Development Design Construction Management Services

Hmmmmm I wounder how this company got the contract🤔🤔🤔 I don’t see amusement park or theme park or amusement rides in their job description????

[Naazon]

8 minutes ago, Thrill Seeker said:

Hmmmmm I wounder how this company got the contract🤔🤔🤔 I don’t see amusement park or theme park or amusement rides in their job description????

Its likely, and I'm pretty sure already been discussed the issues are with the building its self and not the ride. Things like fire escapes, emergency lighting and whatever else is required in a building.

I understand people joke at Dreamworld not having the building right, but this happens quite a lot. Suncorp Stadium had late changes made to it, as there were not the required number of toilets (not facilities, actual toilets). From memory the Northern Busway didn't have the right fire fighting equipment (unsure if hydrant points or sprinklers) so this isn't just DW being shitty, its an issue all over QLD due to tight regulations that apparently a lot of construction/design companies fail at.

[Thrill Seeker]

They probably wouldn’t have the f up if they just built a new building with perfessionals. 😏

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

22 minutes ago, Thrill Seeker said:

They probably wouldn’t have the f up if they just built a new building with perfessionals. 😏

Who do you think they got to build the ride, Bunnings employees?

[New display name]

11 minutes ago, Gold Coast Amusement Force said:

Who do you think they got to build the ride, Bunnings employees?

A lot of Bunnings employees are trade qualified.

[Gold Coast Amusement Force]

27 minutes ago, Skeeta said:

A lot of Bunnings employees are trade qualified.

To build flying simulators and that

[red dragin]

1 hour ago, Thrill Seeker said:

They probably wouldn’t have the f up if they just built a new building with perfessionals. 😏

Having managed new apartment buildings built by professionals, the length of the defect list upon completion would frighten you, especially the larger issues found (not just marks and dirty floors).

In one instance, a 13 floor (plus basements) building had every single penetration (go on, giggle 😁) fail as the wrong material was used to seal around where pipe/cabling went through the concrete slab. The original seals where passed by QFES inspectors prior to opening, but failed the defect inspector who came along after opening.

We had a building with ~100 residents in it by the time it was picked up, that technically wasn't fire safe. This was pre-Grenfell Tower, I'd suspect if it happened today, everyone might have been made to move out until it was remedied.

That building was built by one of the bigger construction companies in SEQ and passed by the Fire Department themselves, and I think is a good example of how things can be cocked up. Stretching my memory, I think the issue was that the first stage building was 5 floors, so that seal material was ok and everyone just proceeded to use it on the 13 floor building under a wrong assumption. Turns out that over a certain height you couldn't use it.

Edited April 10, 2019 by red dragin