What Would You Have Done With WLS Had It Not Closed Down?

[Bussy]

Its pathetic that you same old boring cynical operators are still have the same old tired arguments about staffing levels, rotations etc etc etc..This forum sounds like it has become the virtual Wonderland canteen. Its funny that nothing has changed, there is so much mis-information floating around about all sorts of things and you people take Wonderbus's word as absolute gospel..from what I read none of you REALLY know much at all, there is just so much pathetic here-say, rumour and personal analysis. You people cant air your dirty laundry in the canteen anymore so why not do it online instead. Get over it the place is closed, why not talk about your real jobs that you have now, it was the sort of cynical attitude that is being brandished by ex employees on this very forum, that is what made Wonderland so bad..Don't blame management...have a look in the mirror first

Wazza, I pretty sure I am the only ex-operator posting in this thread and if you had read what I said you would realise that I am not being cynical at all just realistic. If I don't know what I am talking about then something is really wrong but please don't let us stop you telling us how it really was because I would like to know. Why would we want to talk about our current jobs, unless they are in the industry, on a website all about theme parks? Please read my posts thoroughly before you make comments because you obviously haven't.

No Bus... read it again. i said they should train more people up to operator level, and they should also improve the treatment and morale of the staff to encourage them to stay - as in long enough for them to become a console operator.

Do you think that there was more than one type of operator for Space Probe? You were either trained as an operator, which meant that you could do everything, or you were trained as an 'unloader', which was actually a loader and was responsible for grouping, checking heights and opening the door to bring them into the launch area. There was no in-between you were either an operator or not.

As quoted on the fact sheet sign out the front of probe, time taken for the gondola to reach the top was just over 20 seconds (photo anyone?) drop time was 4 seconds again according to the sign, but im not going to be pedantic over 1 second. so so far we have 24 seconds. now the catch wagon begins descent the moment the cabin touches bottom. its automatic. and with operators at peak efficiency, they can have the previous group cleared of the launch bay, and have the next group beginning to take their seats. so ill grant your 30 second catch wagon timing, as I have no other information to go on. so thats 54. now if there is one operator per gondola, the preshow cast have already prepared guests with loose belongings and all the rest,

Ok let me shoot some cannon balls through your '64' magical number theory. The sign out the front never had the correct information on it, for one the speed of 120 km/h was off by about 30 km/h. There was a WorkCover certificate at the ride that stated the speed at 93 km/h, last time I checked WorkCover didn't get things like the speed of machinery wrong.

now probe will not dispatch if a OTSR isnt down, and neither will it dispatch if the gondola is unbalanced.

Next and your biggest hole, is when you say that it wouldn't dispatch with the OTSR up, I can tell you with absolute certainty that this is not true as I witnessed Space Probe operating with the harnesses up on several occasions. You then say it wouldn't dispatch unbalanced, another un-truth. It wouldn't dispatch with too much weight on each cabin, the maximum was 350kg although the sign out the front said 400kg. You could dispatch it with 2 big guys on one side of a cabin no problem, yes the maintenance guys didn't like that but it was still possible.

so essentially all the operators have to do is give a jerk to four OTSR's to make sure they're locked and give a "cabin 1(or 2 or 3), clear" and hit Despatch.

The button next to each cabin was not a dispatch button but an 'enable' button, basically if you weren't going to use a cabin you didn't enable it.

then i foresee only 2 or 3 complaints outside of that scope for the whole day which would at most add another 60 seconds to one despatch. so you loose 3 minutes in complaints etc in the day.

You are kidding yourself if you think that there were only 2 or 3 complaints in a day, working in the department you did you should know better than that.

64 seconds x 12 Passengers = 768 per hour

Last but not least you 768 calculation is flawed, why did you multiply the number of passengers by the number of seconds taken? It should be number of passengers multiplied by the number of cycles per hour. Do you want to continue this argument? Because I am more than happy to as I know what I am talking about on this subject. But please feel free to keep trying. "The Bus is now leaving for Cannonball Rock, NSW"

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Do you think that there was more than one type of operator for Space Probe? No. if you read my post YET AGAIN, i say - train cast up to "operator level". my use of the term "console operator" further down was simply to clarify, and designate the "operator level" as being a level at which the operator can operate the console. not everyone has operated probe, and this was for their benefit, not purely for an ex-console operator of said attraction. Ok let me shoot some cannon balls through your '64' magical number theory. The sign out the front never had the correct information on it, for one the speed of 120 km/h was off by about 30 km/h. There was a WorkCover certificate at the ride that stated the speed at 93 km/h, last time I checked WorkCover didn't get things like the speed of machinery wrong. Ok - take your balls back bus, i wasn't quoting the SPEED of the ride, only the time taken to reach the bottom top. the speed may be wrong, yes. as i recall probe was intended to be another 1/3 of its current height higher, but due to flight plans and such it could not be built as high as intamin intended. with less of the tower to travel, it would not accelerate to the speed quoted by intamin, however this lower tower height would counteract the "time taken" to reach the bottom top. so shove those cannon balls up your zodiac. Next and your biggest hole, is when you say that it wouldn't dispatch with the OTSR up, I can tell you with absolute certainty that this is not true as I witnessed Space Probe operating with the harnesses up on several occasions. You then say it wouldn't dispatch unbalanced, another un-truth. It wouldn't dispatch with too much weight on each cabin, the maximum was 350kg although the sign out the front said 400kg. You could dispatch it with 2 big guys on one side of a cabin no problem, yes the maintenance guys didn't like that but it was still possible. ok. in this instance, i was wrong. i admit it, but bear in mind this still does not affect the timing of the ride, it actually supports it further. i made this statement to allow for loading delays, but since it can dispatch unbalanced, this further reduces my assumption of load delays. The button next to each cabin was not a dispatch button but an 'enable' button, basically if you weren't going to use a cabin you didn't enable it. ok. so it seems if someone is writing for wonderbus, they need to be COMPLETELY EXPLICIT. my statement should have read (and does, but is a little obscure) loaders jerk four OTSR's, give the cabin 1 (or 2 or 3) all clear, and the CONSOLE OPERATOR hits despatch. You are kidding yourself if you think that there were only 2 or 3 complaints in a day, working in the department you did you should know better than that. im not discussing every single complaint, what i am saying is that if the operation went as I had stated, a lot of complaints would be eliminated simply by removing the cause of these complaints. a fast and efficient load team, with fast cycles and fast moving queue lines keeps guests happy, therefore reducing complaints. what i said was OUTSIDE THE SCOPE of complaints about delays etc, there would be few. most complaints would generally be directed to a super, or guest relations, as opposed to an operator. Last but not least you 768 calculation is flawed, why did you multiply the number of passengers by the number of seconds taken? It should be number of passengers multiplied by the number of cycles per hour. ok - here we go 12 passengers every 64 seconds. 60 minutes in an hour Cycles = 56.25 per hour Total Passengers per hour = 675 it is still over the 600 you were talking about, and still quite realistic given the statements posted previously. there are two requirements for this to work: 1) guests enough to keep queue line long enough to keep a steady flow into the pre show area. 2) operators with the attitude and dedication to aim for that capacity each and every hour. my math was a little out, the idea was still sound. Do you want to continue this argument? Because I am more than happy to as I know what I am talking about on this subject. But please feel free to keep trying. yes. please continue bus. the majority of the "holes" you shot in my post were simply due to the fact that I posted in language you didnt fully comprehend. The Bus is now leaving, permanently.

[Bussy]

No. if you read my post YET AGAIN, i say - train cast up to "operator level". my use of the term "console operator" further down was simply to clarify, and designate the "operator level" as being a level at which the operator can operate the console. not everyone has operated probe, and this was for their benefit, not purely for an ex-console operator of said attraction.

Ok thanks for clarifying that for me but to make things easier try using the same terms consistently. Can you explain that last sentence to me because I’m buggered if I can figure out what you were trying to say.

Ok - take your balls back bus, i wasn't quoting the SPEED of the ride, only the time taken to reach the bottom  top. the speed may be wrong, yes. as i recall probe was intended to be another 1/3 of its current height higher, but due to flight plans and such it could not be built as high as intamin intended. with less of the tower to travel, it would not accelerate to the speed quoted by intamin, however this lower tower height would counteract the "time taken" to reach the bottom  top. so shove those cannon balls up your zodiac.

I know you weren’t talking about the speed of the ride I was pointing out that you cannot always believe what is on them. Well shove this up your Bush Beast, the time on the sign was the freefall time and did not include the time in the braking section.

ok. in this instance, i was wrong. i admit it, but bear in mind this still does not affect the timing of the ride, it actually supports it further. i made this statement to allow for loading delays, but since it can dispatch unbalanced, this further reduces my assumption of load delays.

If this supports you assumption it also shoots a very large hole in your capacity figures. If the ride is going to be dispatched with only 2 or 3 people on a cabin it reduces the capacity dramatically.

ok. so it seems if someone is writing for wonderbus, they need to be COMPLETELY EXPLICIT. my statement should have read (and does, but is a little obscure) loaders jerk four OTSR's, give the cabin 1 (or 2 or 3) all clear, and the CONSOLE OPERATOR hits despatch.

Read that back and tell me how funny it is. First you say that you need to be explicit and then go on to admit that what you said was obscure. Loaders did not have anything to do with the cabins besides showing the guests which one they were sitting on. The only person that was allowed to check the harnesses and enable and dispatch the ride was, and lets get this clear, the operator, there was no ‘console’ operator, there was an operator and loaders that’s it.

im not discussing every single complaint, what i am saying is that if the operation went as I had stated, a lot of complaints would be eliminated simply by removing the cause of these complaints. a fast and efficient load team, with fast cycles and fast moving queue lines keeps guests happy, therefore reducing complaints. what i said was OUTSIDE THE SCOPE of complaints about delays etc, there would be few. most complaints would generally be directed to a super, or guest relations, as opposed to an operator.

I beg to differ. There was one person at each ride who was ultimately responsible for height checks and that is the operator, if the operator suspects that a guest is under the height they have to check them even if they were checked by the parents, by the staff member outside the tunnel and by the staff member in pre-show. I often had arguments with guests that would last several minutes over height restrictions. The staff that would have been outside the tunnels or even in pre-show were inexperienced and therefore often unable to deal with the situation effectively, when that happened they would contact the operator who would try and solve the complaint. This was not a case of training but experience. The majority of complaints are dealt with by the operator not the supervisor or guest relations. If the complaint gets out of hand that was when the supervisor was called, guest relations was very rarely called to deal with guest complaints because the operator or the supervisor would resolve it before it got out of hand. What about people who kick their shoes off? If they do that you have to unlock the harnesses, tell them to put their shoes back on, argue with them about it , wait for them to put them on, lock them back in. It all takes time and happened on average every fifth cycle.

ok - here we go 12 passengers every 64 seconds. 60 minutes in an hour Cycles = 56.25 per hour Total Passengers per hour = 675 it is still over the 600 you were talking about, and still quite realistic given the statements posted previously. there are two requirements for this to work: 1) guests enough to keep queue line long enough to keep a steady flow into the pre show area. 2) operators with the attitude and dedication to aim for that capacity each and every hour. my math was a little out, the idea was still sound.

You will never get 12 passengers on every cycle, the average would be around 10 so that drops your figure by over 100. Before you say “there should always be 12 on every cycle if the team is working effectively” remember that when you have a group of 3 people it is very hard to get a single person to fill that spot.

yes. please continue bus. the majority of the "holes" you shot in my post were simply due to the fact that I posted in language you didnt fully comprehend.

Do you want to go back to school and learn about capitals and punctuation before you imply that I don’t comprehend English. Oh yeah make sure you replies are completely explicit otherwise I might not be able to understand what you mean. You know I might actually know what I am talking about, operating Space Probe for nearly 3 years seems to give me some insight into the operational considerations of the ride. “The Bus is now leaving for Permanent Water Camp Creek, NSW”

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

You're never wrong, are you Bus? Capitals are the only thing I don't use frequently on here. My punctuation has no errors. You, on the other hand, seem to have trouble comprehending the simplest of english phrases. For example - take a look at your last post - "Oh yeah make sure you replies are completely explicit otherwise I might not be able to understand what you mean. " Spot the problem... Stop being so damn pessimistic all the time. The ride is not going to reopen. This we know. We are talking theoretically about a target that should have been aimed for every day of operation. Ok, I haven't operated Space Probe. Whoopee. You have. Whoopee for you. Im going to end this thread as far as I am concerned right now, because if there's one thing i've learnt while being on these forums, is that no matter who is right and who is wrong, if Bus isn't right then no-one is.... well according to Bus anyway. Being that my proposal has never been tested, how can you say it won't work without trying it bus? No no, no need to answer, thats my point exactly. Arrogance and Ego is your problem Bus. Better step on it before it steps on you. "The Bus is now leaving for Primary School"

[rappa]

This is actualy pretty funny to read because Alex is statying how the ride 'should' have been operated and Bus is arguing against him with how the ride WAS operated. This is the point I think Bus, you keep saying he is wrong because it was done in "x" or "y" particular way. Do you think that maybe WLs way of operating the ride was maybe not the best? Just look at most other parks, 'attendants' are charged with enabling ride vehicles, leaving the console operator (or tower member) to concentrate on that job. Same goes for heights, the operator shouldn't have a need to be concerned about heights because he/she should know the rest of the ride crew are doing their job properly in checking heights. And the shoes thing is one of the stupidest things I've thought about park operations in a long time. Why have all these loose article policies when you then demand that thongs be worn? Just exactly what is not having shoed on going to do on a ride like probe or lethal weapon??? But being as you mentioned it, if the pre-show members were spotting thongs and the like they would be telling guests to ensure they leave them on. Once again most of your arguments Bus are supported purely by the fact that WL didn't run its ride all that properly. And capacity doesnt exactly mean how many are actualy on the ride, its how many it can carry, so one seat being empty doesnt change its capacity. If you half fill a 5L bucket then its capacity is still 5L. This problem is mostly created though by only running 1 or 2 person Op. If you have a member in pre-show they can get single riders which fill that 4th seat. Every wondered why Single Rider Lines are so popular?

[dr_teeth]

With thongs and things like that its actually a hygiene issue. Same goes for not letting guys ride with no shirt on etc. Ill give another example of this by public transport. You actually arent allowed to ride in taxis and busses if you dont have a shirt of footwear on. (however you still see it happening)

[rappa]

No a shirt and thongs are completely different. In most cases yes footware should be worn but I just dont see the justification on these unsupported leg rides. Thongs is no more hygenic than no footwear at all and it is just contradicting the no loose articles policies that are in place. Either make it 'fully enclosed footware' or allow leaving thongs behind, it just follows no logic. Make it noted that I never wear thongs to a park.

[steve$]

Yeah,who does wear thongs to a park, you j ust wouldn't take the risk on some rides of losing them like you so easily could on most rides

[Gazza]

What is so unhygenic about not wearing shoes if you have thongs, if your feet are hanging in the air then they cant dirty anything, i think the saftey issue of a thong dropping is more important then the supposed hygine issue.

[Bussy]

You're never wrong, are you Bus?

No, not on this subject anyway.

Capitals are the only thing I don't use frequently on here. My punctuation has no errors. You, on the other hand, seem to have trouble comprehending the simplest of english phrases. For example - take a look at your last post - "Oh yeah make sure you replies are completely explicit otherwise I might not be able to understand what you mean. " Spot the problem...

No.

Stop being so damn pessimistic all the time. The ride is not going to reopen. This we know. We are talking theoretically about a target that should have been aimed for every day of operation. Ok, I haven't operated Space Probe. Whoopee. You have. Whoopee for you. Im going to end this thread as far as I am concerned right now, because if there's one thing i've learnt while being on these forums, is that no matter who is right and who is wrong, if Bus isn't right then no-one is.... well according to Bus anyway. Being that my proposal has never been tested, how can you say it won't work without trying it bus? No no, no need to answer, thats my point exactly. Arrogance and Ego is your problem Bus. Better step on it before it steps on you.

What is the point in talking theoretically if in reality it is impossible to do? I have admitted to being wrong in the past but you obviously have overlooked that. Actually your proposal has been 'tested'. It is very similar to how the ride was operated when it first opened and I think you will find that when the ride dropped from 5 operators to 2 there was very little change in the capacity of the ride.

"The Bus is now leaving for Primary School"

What primary school? To me it looks like you have taken this subject very personally, take a chill pill and go have a lie down.

This is the point I think Bus, you keep saying he is wrong because it was done in "x" or "y" particular way. Do you think that maybe WLs way of operating the ride was maybe not the best?

I agree that they way that Wonderland operated was not the best. However the point I have been making is that there is the 'best' way to do it and then there is the 'real' way to do it. It is impossible to do it the 'best' way for reasons that I have stated in previous posts.

Same goes for heights, the operator shouldn't have a need to be concerned about heights because he/she should know the rest of the ride crew are doing their job properly in checking heights.

Again that is how it should be but there is only one person who has control of the ride and that is the operator. They have to be 100% sure that everything is 100% safe before starting the ride and that includes heights, loose articles, other guest related issues and ride related issues. The operator may have confidence in the other staff at the ride but when it comes down to it, it's their job and most importantly the lives of guests on the line.

And the shoes thing is one of the stupidest things I've thought about park operations in a long time. Why have all these loose article policies when you then demand that thongs be worn? Just exactly what is not having shoed on going to do on a ride like probe or lethal weapon??? But being as you mentioned it, if the pre-show members were spotting thongs and the like they would be telling guests to ensure they leave them on.

I have always agreed that the 'shoes must be worn' rule was stupid, but the reason it was in place was to guard against public liability claims. Example, the cabin shears some metal off the ride during drop and the guests have to walk through it to get off. If they don't have shoes on they may have their feet cut but the shards of metal. "The Bus is now leaving for Sulky Alex Hill, NSW"

[rappa]

YAY Finaly a post I can say yes that is fair enough, logical and non 'we love WL' biassed. I think as you say WL was operating in the 'real' way. That's the point that I think needs to be made about the park, it simple couldn't/did not want to operate using the 'best' method as many of the overseas parks it was being compared to do. I think we are both saying the same thing in regards to the heights. The whole point is that YES the operator is ultimately responsible but they should be in a possition when then have 100% confidence in the people working around them not to have to check everything themself. I do this everyday, I have to be confident in the knowledge that my crew are doing their job and 6t of rigging and lights isn't going to fall on some poor audience or performers head. Same goes for rides, many other parks operate in this way, WL should be able to as well. Yes you said it perfectly Bus, worcover are a stupid governing body. They react to incidents and set rules accordingly with little thought to the greater implications they may have. This is illustrated perfectly in the loose footware policies we see in place.

[scott]

Look,I know threads can get off topic but come on I asked you guys a question about WLS and now your talking about personal hygene and costumes.

[dr_teeth]

haha scotty read any thread on this site that goes for any amount of time and they all do the same thing. as for the thing about thongs it is a hygene issue..anyone that has ever caught a skin fungis from showers at a caravan park will know what im talking about

[Nebuchanezzar]

Uh, Hi Neb. I just realised this topic was around so forgive me for responding to the subject title. Anyway, I'd probably see what funds I have and then build a new ride depending on the situation. If I was losing money then I'd have to think if I was willing to make a bet that big.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Im going to end this thread as far as I am concerned right now, because if there's one thing i've learnt while being on these forums, is that no matter who is right and who is wrong, if Bus isn't right then no-one is.... well according to Bus anyway.

I'm trying to get someone to bite but the only person to do so lately was AlexB in this thread.  I'm still waiting for him to reply to my last post by the way.

Yet again it seems as though Wonderbus is incapable of comprehending the english language. Dog With a Bone Bus... Dog With a Bone. Theres a "yo Mama" comment i'd put in here if i was 7 years younger and had the intelligence of a lot of the other members (Including Wonderbus)... but as im not and i don't.... i will refrain. I do however have the psychic vision that I will see another comment from wonderbus here following mine... go on bus... you know you can't resist... HIT that reply button, before those nervous shakes and twitched overwhelm you!

[Bussy]

If you ended it why did you reply to my post? You read that I try to get people to bite and you have been the only one to do so lately so why get so offended by my posts?

Yet again it seems as though Wonderbus is incapable of comprehending the english language.

I comprehend the language fine but obviously you don’t, just look at the following quote and ask yourself "when was the last time I saw a correctly structured sentence with more than one full stop in a row?"

Theres a "yo Mama" comment i'd put in here if i was 7 years younger and had the intelligence of a lot of the other members (Including Wonderbus)... but as im not and i don't.... i will refrain. I do however have the psychic vision that I will see another comment from wonderbus here following mine... go on bus... you know you can't resist... HIT that reply button, before those nervous shakes and twitched overwhelm you!

I too can ask a question about your mum but I don't think Richard would like it even though it would be a joke, so I won't. But can you post your 'Yo Momma' joke because I love them and unlike you I don't take everything personally. Must go now and take my pills so I don't get the shakes. "The Bus is now leaving for Mummaloowyebubba Hill, Western Australia"