All's not well at LPS

[Bussy]

The rides staff at LPS walked off the job today over a pay dispute. Basically they are un-happy (understandably) that LPS plan to cut the pay rate for operators at least. From what I have heard from sources inside that park it is a substantial pay cut, about $2-$3 per hour. I can't understand why this would happen so close to the park's re-opening, if they wanted the lower pay rate do it from the start. Good start for LPS management, residents offside, staff offside, could this be the beginning of the end (again)? "The Bus is now leaving for Notts Well, South Australia"

[disneyland]

It was a mis understanding, its not a pay cut, information was not understood from the start. so park 50% opened today with about 5-6 rides open and free rides all day. Guest relations cast members ran the park today.

[GoGoBoy]

Does anyone have any detailed information on this misunderstanding? A couple of the LPS ride ops told me a while ago that the pay rate is quite low, even lower than Wonderland was. Apparantley they don't even get paid a higher rate on public holidays. I can't confirm this though as it is only word of mouth. On Channel 10 news they said that staff were confused as to the level of skill required for each appropriate pay level. Not really sure what that means though. Could it have been that the park decided to reduce a number of the staff down to a lower level?

[disneyland]

yes the holiday pate rate is right, staff dont get it. LPS has 3 levels of pay, level 1, level 2 and level 3, all staff start on level 1 untill they have been with the park for more than 6 months and then move up to level 2. and level 3 is for supervisors. when the park opened all the staff where getting paid at level 2, but some where getting paid at level 1. so LPS decided to set the record clear and start again. everyone is level 1. in the LPS training book is does state this but no one ever did read it well enough. Also ride ops got more money than attendents and i believe thats gone to rides is one level of pay, LEVEL ONE for ALL STAFF no mater what department or ride.

[GoGoBoy]

Thanks for that great clarification Disneyland and welcome to the board by the way. Are you aware what the actual hourly rate is for staff members at level 1? The ops I have spoken to were complaining because they were only getting a FLAT rate of around or under $14 per hour and I'm pretty sure they would have been starting at level 2. I can't imagine how upset they would be if they are now getting even less than that. It must be bordering on absolute minimum wage. The only thing I do agree with is keeping all staff on a relatively even playing field in regards to pay (within reason and not including sups and team leaders of course). It can lead to low morale if one staff member is getting paid more than another for doing similar work

[disneyland]

thanks GoBoi, the level 1 rate is $14.50

[rappa]

I have always (and still am) against stupid rules like you must be with a company for a certain amount of time to earn a particular pay rate. The amount of time you work for someone has no direct bearing on your skill level or the quality of worker you are. Its just a ludicrous as basing pay rates completely on age, if your doing the same job as someone else you should be getting paid the same regardless of how long you may have worked, how old you are, the alignments of the planets, etc. It is also silly to expect Ride Operators to work for the same rate as attendants. Ultimately the Op. carries with them the responsibility for everything pertaining to his/her ride, that added responsibility should earn you a higher rate. Same as someone operating a roller coaster shouldn't be on the same rate as someone operating the kiddie train... Just my 2c on the matter. (btw $14.50/hr is a pretty ****house rate to be on. We pay the guys the load our trucks that!)

[GoGoBoy]

Yeah you're right about the rate rappa. And Don't forget that that amount does not increase for Luna Park staff on weekends or public holidays which is pretty unfair. I think it is a little bit disappointing when a new company dishes out old pay rates

[screammachine]

Welcome to the Forums Disneyland... Thats a pretty shocker of a pay rate! I'd say pay them on different rates depending on their age.. I personaly think its a bit rediculous paying someone more after they'd been there for six months.... Well thats my opinion.. Screammachine

[Psycho]

Just playing devil's advocate for a second (I'm not saying I agree with what has been done here), but it is common practice for many companies to restrict the pay rate that employees get until they have stayed with the company for a certain number of months. For many casual employees, that's the reality they face. I know of a lot of national employers who restrict their casual employees to a maximum of an 18 year old's wage for the first 3-6 months. What I strongly don't agree with is not paying workers overtime for Sundays and public holidays. That's ridiculous. The idea is that you work on days that aren't 'traditionally' work days and you get an incentive because of it. Why would someone work a public holiday when you could work a weekday for exactly the same rate? That just seems totally illogical to me. Do the workers at LPS even have a union behind them? If they do, they don't seem to be doing a very good job...

[Bussy]

It was a mis understanding, its not a pay cut, information was not understood from the start.

It was a pay cut, the operators are currently getting $17.50 p/h but the pay will go down to $14.50 in 2 weeks time. It doesn't matter if the information was misunderstood to begin with, you just can't cut your staffs pay rate, especially by $3.

On Channel 10 news they said that staff were confused as to the level of skill required for each appropriate pay level. Not really sure what that means though. Could it have been that the park decided to reduce a number of the staff down to a lower level?

The park hasn't decided to reduce staffing levels, what they are going to do in 2 weeks is put all rides staff on the same level of pay, which is wrong because operators have much more responsibility that an attendant. This should be reflected in pay accordingly. Rapster, it’s not that staff members have to be at the park a certain amount of time before they move up a level. It may say that in the handbook but it is not the rule. It is a competency based issue. If a staff member who is not competent enough to move up a level, in the eyes of the supervisor, they will not move up no matter how long they have been work at the place. But if a new staff member who has been there for a relatively short time is competent enough, again as the supervisor sees it, they will be moved up. On the issue of not being paid more for weekends and public holidays, it is absolutely ridiculous to expect people to work on those days for the same amount of pay, when usually, as with all theme parks, these are the highest capacity days and therefore the workload increases. Saying that I know that Skytours at Sydney Tower (Centerpoint) staff don’t get loading for weekends and public holiday’s and the pay rate there is even less than Luna (about $13:50 from what I’ve heard) I don’t agree with strikes at a workplace as I can’t see that they do much good, except save the company a days pay for those employees. There are better ways to negotiate differences between staff and management. The other thing with yesterday’s strike was that there was no prior talk’s between the two parties, so that disadvantaged the employees even further. "The Bus is now leaving for Clear Point, NSW"

[rappa]

100% agree with you Bus. I was saying the 6month thing was stupid so glad to hear that apparently that is not what is happening. But yes $14.50 is a joke for that sort of responsibility, there is no way I'd take on that sort of a role for that measly sum. In our industry we pay the riggers who put in the points we fly lighting rigs from in the roofs of venues a very high hourly rate. This is because should all those tons of metal happen to fall out of the roof the responsibility lies with them. They may be somewhat low skill jobs in many ways but its the responsibility that should be earning these people a decent pay packet. This sort of attitude by management makes me really angry. Just about as much the fact that WL management sacked all of their staff but managed to find nice jobs for themselves over at Luna Park...

[disneyland]

my 2 cents worth is and please dont bite back, all ride ops and ride attendents should get the SAME rate of pay, if your loading or pushing buttons, same pay rate, cause you both have the same responsibility on the ride, the safety of the guest's. but again thats my 2 cents worth......

[Richard]

But it's not really the same responsibility. Who has more responsibility on a ship, the captain, or the waiter who serves dinner in the aft seafood restaurant? Strangely, not a coincidence that the captain on most cruise ships is a high-paid westerner, while the crew are mostly from third-world countries and paid accordingly.

[joz]

Whats the difference between an operator and attendant? I never realised there were two different job types out there, and what makes people think they should be paid more?

[Richard]

Attendant would be say the briefing guy in Bermuda Triangle, or the people with the cheap tuxedos who take you into the library and give you the talk on Batman. I'd say for simplicity that anyone who doesn't push buttons controlling the ride is a ride attendant. Because there's not much that can go wrong with their job, they consequently have no weight over their heads. No more or less integral to the operation of the park, but still a much smaller responsibility. John Menzies (or Peter Hearne in the case of Luna Park) has a great responsibility. If he presses the wrong button, so to speak, then there'd be big problems. That's the fundamental theory of the ratrace; more responsibility, more money.

[rappa]

I kind of agree and don't agree with you Disney... I would class an Atendant as a member of the ride crew putting people in cars, checking restraints, etc. I would call an Op. the person at the control panel pressing buttons. The people playing a 'part' like you say Richard with Batman or BT I would call cast. I agree that Atendants should be on higher pay than Cast as they have the responsibility of safety to riders, however ultimately the responsibility lies with the person at the controls so they should be on top in the pay stakes. I am also of the opinion though that you should be paid based on your qualification not the job your doing on any one day. If you're Op. trained you should be paid as one no matter what your'e doing on any given day. That's only fair after all. All this however means nothing at Wonderland where everyone of those roles were performed by the one person :-p

[GoGoBoy]

At every park I've been involved with both the ride operator and ride attendant (loading and unloading) are usually trained to be able to perform all jobs associated with the ride. They will usually swap around positions throughout a shift. The only exception I have found to this is if a staff member is under 18 and therefore cannot operate the ride. If you are over 18 and work in the 'rides' department you will usually be trained on every aspect of the rides operation. In this case, everyone should be payed the same rate. If a park has a system of putting new staff through a probationary period where they only load/unload, then maybe there should be a lower pay rate during this period

[Richard]

I'd still call them attendants rather than cast. They're splitting guests into groups and directing them through the ride/pre-ride sections. Cast are the people who get into costumes and entertain people, having no attending or operating responsibilities. These people are involved in the operation of rides and attractions. I fully agree that you should be paid based on your training. If they stuff the rosters and end up having to put operators, who are fully trained to do the lower jobs, as attendants, then that's their problem.

[rappa]

Oh I'm sure your'e right Rich in regards to what the parks do. I was just putting them into those categories to make it easy to make my point...

[joz]

I think I'm just used to it being the same job. At SW Ops are trained the basic crowd control stuff plus load unload and whatnot. If your there for a couple of years, then you'd learn say, Bermuda Control room and different things along those lines, but its still classed as being an Op. Your pay does go up as you learn different things but you essentially still do the same job as a new person. For example, I'm paid more then a new person starting in Food & Beverage but we're both still Food & Bev attendants. The person on the controls at SW gets paid more because they are capable of doing all the jobs on any given ride, and are 'more valuable to the company' or something like that. Basically competency based pay.

[GoGoBoy]

Yeah I agree with your comments joz. As I said in my post, at the parks I've been involved with, the operators would never just operate the ride for an entire shift. They would always swap around with the person loading and unloading. It is normally a simple rotating system between the staff that are rostered on to that ride for that particular day. The main reason for doing this is to prevent boredom. It breaks up the day if you do a bit of everything. I would be surprised if Luna Park would be hiring some staff soley as operators and others soley as loaders/unloaders. In a small park like Luna it would make sense to have everyone trained on everything which is why a standard pay rate makes sense. I also don't mind the idea of having pay levels rising after a set amount of time as this encourages employee retention and helps to stop envy among staff. In a position like ride operators/attendants I think you'd create issues paying people different rates for doing a similar job. Once a staff member has been at the park for a set amount of time (and again if they become a team leader, staff trainer or supervisor) then their level goes up. It's just a bit fairer I think