Wizard of Oz - Movie World Arkham Asylum Replacement

[Brad2912]

If the theme is WoO as it appears, it marks a definitive change from the origin plans which clearly showed it being DC related, so maybe the actual plans regarding model/s of rides may have shifted too. Guess we’ll find out soon 

[Guest 239]

8 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

If the theme is WoO as it appears, it marks a definitive change from the origin plans which clearly showed it being DC related, so maybe the actual plans regarding model/s of rides may have shifted too. Guess we’ll find out soon 

There’s a possibility that some deals have been made under the table to exchange attractions with other parks, but I’d imagine that this is a re-theme of the previously internally released plans. I can’t imagine that they would have commissioned the concepts for the older designs before securing the coasters which makes me think they’re locked in with deposits paid, and it’s easier to change a theme than actual attractions in light of global manufacturing problems. 

1 hour ago, rappa said:

Genuinely not sure what critique is being thrown out here about this?

It’s Schrödinger’s precinct at the moment - Any possibility exists before a proper reveal so it’s hard to critique without pre-existing negative and positive biases.
 

If it’s the Oz theme slapped onto the previous reveal then I’ll be more confused than anything because it’s an odd pairing. 

[MARK28]

I have long thought that Movie World need another decent family thrill, something in an IP away from Superheroes and which reflects the idea that Movie World is about the classics too... this is perfect... and if rumours are true we're essentially getting 3 coasters... I don't get why people are complaining. They literally have a hyper coaster, an el loco and an intamin accelerator... why would they need to add another thrill at this point in time?

[Brad2912]

3 minutes ago, MARK28 said:

an el loco

That’s more of a hindrance than a positive. 

[Tricoart]

14 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

That’s more of a hindrance than a positive. 

GL'd be fine if the brakes didn't feel like getting hit by a truck

[Baconjack]

Yeah this is what I’ve heard from people with contacts at Village, I did give it a little tease earlier.

The 3 coasters will get a wizard of oz theme, a change which was made from DC only relatively recently.

Imo the IP that is being used is very out of left field for the family demographic and something generic like Studio Tour would have been a far better fit for the family demographic.

My same source tells me the models of the coasters themselves have not changed, so what we’re getting is a reskin of the previous joker’s madhouse concept that the coasters were supposed to be themed to.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Baconjack

[Cactus_Matt]

Sources or not @Baconjack I personally think a 'timeless' theme like The Wizard of Oz, is far preferable to some flavour of the month superhero shit. I mean, it's "Movie World" not Super Hero World or (god forbid) DC World... That said, I have little faith that what was apparently a 'villains' themed DC precinct will ~seamlessly~ transition into a Wizard of Oz themed precinct, that said I do appreciate the attempt.

Honestly the entire park needs to undergo a retheme, if it was my decision I'd immediately find a new theme for Green Lantern (maybe Matrix, that way you don't need to repaint just add some features like lights and tunnels), completely gut Justice League and put something more cool and timeless like a Blade Runner experience (motion simulator or whatever new tech exists that's comparable). Pie in the sky kind of thinking but put a wooden roller coaster (even if its just something small) next to the Wild Wild West and retheme the entire area to Mad Max/Furiosa. Then while you're at it just put the dumb generic car stunt show to literally any movie franchise, Police Academy was iconic but whatever you've got just not what it currently is. As for the kids area (whatever passes for it in its current state) just at least place one signature ride that draws people in, as a kid for me there was nothing more exciting than the Loony Tunes River Rapids, I literally had no fondness or nostalgia or whatever for any of those Looney Tunes characters, I was a 'Nick kid' growing up but the overall presentation, dedication of the ride attendants and seamless integration between the queuing experience and ride experience was so good that even though it was intimidating to venture to the centre of the earth, I still bought it hook, line and sinker even until I was a teenager - that's how immersive of an experience it was - or maybe that's how dumb I was. Nevertheless it was a Disney-tier attraction, and more than epic, record-breaking roller coasters that is what Movie World needs more than anything else.

Oops, did I rant a bit long there, sorry, whiskey will do that to ya...

[Dean Barnett]

🤔

 

[Smol bean]

That's definitely not happening we already know that the park will probably get the 3 family coasters and wicked twister got sold for scrap while some pieces of track were given away by the park. the only shuttle coasters left are so old and unreliable at this point it would be a waste for movie world to buy them. 

Edited July 18, 2022 by Smol bean

[Park Addict 93]

9 hours ago, CR4ZE said:

Ah, my mistake. The Scooby entrance is the one (I think) I'm referring to. To my original point though, that's all sealed off now, no?

Closed gate, that's all. The area is still clear as it includes evacuation paths and staff access for Scooby and SE. As other's have stated I would hope the main entry from Main St is back/utilised, yellow brick road to Oz and all.

I would like if the access from Superman is also kept and themed well, but wouldn't surprise me if they wish to keep funnelling people into Main St.

8 hours ago, Dom said:

I am cautiously optimistic that recent attendance has shown management that attraction capacity is vitally important to Movie World's long-term success and that we will see some proper family attractions included in this themed area. Oz works perfectly for a high-capacity boat ride and brings the park back to its roots. 

I would love to see a high capacity boat or dark ride, and I guess you could fit something in the former que buildings/space but I honestly doubt it from VRTP at this point. 

4 hours ago, Baconjack said:

The 3 coasters will get a wizard of oz theme, a change which was made from DC only relatively recently.

Imo the IP that is being used is very out of left field for the family demographic and something generic like Studio Tour would have been a far better fit for the family demographic.

Just because staff were only informed very recently doesn't mean it just happened, licensing agreements and new designs and concepts take time.

It's a good "timeless" IP, if done well I can see it doing great and despite being a DC fan a move away is a good thing.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Park Addict 93

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Well holy shit didn't that all explode overnight!

12 hours ago, Rivals said:

I'm talking about the public, the public hears ‘big’ and thinks of a giant new ride, not a new family rides

I don't think the public has elected you their speaker - and it's probably for the best. 

Do remember, MW made a 'big' announcement a little while ago, which turned out to be an online merch store. So big, like everything, is a relative term. 

Despite your opinion, big doesn't have to be giant new ride. Big can just be an entirely new themed land, or three new attractions in one go, or an online merch store... its whatever you want it to be.

11 hours ago, Dom said:

This business mentality is great for short-term monetary gain, and it's going to bite them on the ass in the future 

Are we thinking BGH gives a shit about long term?

10 hours ago, themagician said:

I’m already thinking about how they could do this. I’d love to see the original Lethal Weapon entrance reopen. That alley becomes the yellow brick road and leads into Main Street and it create a fully immersive area with the attractions. I’d be happy to see them close the access from Superman to achieve this. That keeps the DC area seperate from this and creates an exciting journey into this new land.

I had very similar thoughts, but don't close the superman entry - and reopen the scooby entry too. Yellow-brick-road the heck out of all three pathways and lead them all to the main land area. In addition to the rides though, they need a shop \ outlet - something more than just the ride and a viewing area to keep people there \ give them a reason to go there even if they aren't riding. Theme the chinese alleyway to Munchkin land. Plant some legit apple trees. Emerald City one of the sound stage sheds. 

Heck the possibilities keep going - you could drop a small carousel in there for the little kids with standard horses - and just paint each one a different colour. (Trust me, nobody riding a carousel cares that the park has more than one).

I genuinely hope they have plans to redo chinatown alley - and that they put even the most basic effort into making it fit the overall theme.

10 hours ago, CR4ZE said:

Wouldn't this be too disruptive to the Super-Villains precinct? If my memory serves me correctly, the entrance to the alley you speak of is now blocked off by Killer Croc...

As pointed out, different area. Chinatown alley sits between bakery and the bank, though there is another alley to scooby. As part of this expansion, perhaps there is potential to run a pathway between the lethal plaza and wild west, allowing them to incorporate their maze buildings into the park's footprint and utilise them at other times of the year for various things too.

10 hours ago, Dom said:

I am cautiously optimistic that recent attendance has shown management that attraction capacity is vitally important to Movie World's long-term success and that we will see some proper family attractions included in this themed area. Oz works perfectly for a high-capacity boat ride and brings the park back to its roots. 

Or, as pointed out in a recent video I saw on youtube - does the attendance spike just prove to them the best thing they can do is ensure their one-shots are profitable?

[New display name]

Is the Wizard of OZ still popular with this age group?

[Jobe]

40 minutes ago, New display name said:

Is the Wizard of OZ still popular with this age group?

Relevant question. How many kids of the age and demographic they would be targeting are actually overly familar with the Wizard Of OZ IP? Potentially this will have more nostalgia for the parents?

[Naazon]

If the project reported in this article is still active, Wizard of Oz will be very relevant "soon"TM

 

'Wonderful Wizard of Oz' Remake in the Works at New Line - Variety

[CR4ZE]

1 hour ago, Jobe said:

Relevant question. How many kids of the age and demographic they would be targeting are actually overly familar with the Wizard Of OZ IP? Potentially this will have more nostalgia for the parents?

So the parents are going to have some greater sense of nostalgia for a film that came out just before World War II? I think you're underestimating the cultural ubiquity of the IP; franchises such as Oz, as well as Star Wars, DC, Jurassic Park etc. have endured for so long because they have inter-generational appeal. The Oz stage musical toured Australia four years ago and it was a knock-out success. I went and I can tell you the audience almost entirely comprised families with young children, many dressed in costume as their favourite characters. Oz is just as popular today as it was 80 years ago, and I've no doubt it will endure long after we're gone as well.

[Dean Barnett]

1 hour ago, New display name said:

Is the Wizard of OZ still popular with this age group?

None of these IP are popular with the age group... still kick ass attractions 

[Brad2912]

I personally feel Wizard is one of those unique IPs that transcend generations. If you have kids above 8 years old that don’t know Wizard of Oz you’re failing at parenting… (maybe not, but you get my point).

now if only they theme one of the attractions to the often-forgotten, critically-panned but fantastic sequel Return to Oz, I’d be impressed beyond words. 
 

Jack Pumpkinhead’s Great Adventure!

The Gump Takes Flight! 

 

[webslave]

2 hours ago, New display name said:

Is the Wizard of OZ still popular with this age group?

My first thought was that it was actually quite a flex to find an IP with less relevance to kids today than Looney Tunes, but here we are.

Edited July 19, 2022 by webslave

[14burgeja]

48 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

I personally feel Wizard is one of those unique IPs that transcend generations. If you have kids above 8 years old that don’t know Wizard of Oz you’re failing at parenting… (maybe not, but you get my point).

now if only they theme one of the attractions to the often-forgotten, critically-panned but fantastic sequel Return to Oz, I’d be impressed beyond words. 
 

Jack Pumpkinhead’s Great Adventure!

The Gump Takes Flight! 

 

You could even have some entertainers in Wheelers costumes. 

[Brad2912]

7 minutes ago, 14burgeja said:

You could even have some entertainers in Wheelers costumes. 

Now wouldn’t that be something! 

[Spotty]

I'd say Oz is still very much relevant to this day and age. You have had countless movies etc based off it and even stage shows like Wicked. 

If it ends up being this, I'm cautiously optimistic. 

[Tricoart]

1 hour ago, webslave said:

My first thought was that it was actually quite a flex to find an IP with less relevance to kids today than Looney Tunes, but here we are.

Honestly, I don't even think that 'relevant IP' matters. Cedar Fair consistently uses Snoopy in their childrens areas, a whole new family-oriented park was constructed solely based around Peppa Pig, and families here already enjoy the Looney Tunes section, ABC Kids World, and Scooby Doo coaster. If you were to make something with the sole purpose of relevancy for current youth, it'd run the risk of being incredibly dated and boring in like 5 years (e.g. trending games or even social media personalities).  What matters is if it's somewhat whimsical, relatively timeless, and perhaps recognisable.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Tricoart

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

3 hours ago, Brad2912 said:

I personally feel Wizard is one of those unique IPs that transcend generations. If you have kids above 8 years old that don’t know Wizard of Oz you’re failing at parenting… (maybe not, but you get my point).

now if only they theme one of the attractions to the often-forgotten, critically-panned but fantastic sequel Return to Oz, I’d be impressed beyond words. 
 

Jack Pumpkinhead’s Great Adventure!

The Gump Takes Flight! 

 

TL:DR - Return To Oz is owned by Disney and it's unlikely you'll bring those characters to Movie World.

If you don't want to read a century long history of the land of oz, skip the rest. If you want to read a page long rambling summary of the even longer Wiki article then settle down and read on...

(Don't complain and say you weren't warned. If I could still use spoiler tags I would have.)

 

All of the original L Frank Baum stories entered the public domain throughout the 80s and up to 1995, although several other writers have written Oz based works later than that, 27 of them (including Baum) are now public. 

There are still 19 different stories released later that are still protected by US copyright, with the last to expire owned by a still-living author, which won't expire until 70 years after they die.

All that said, since the original works are out, so long as you stick to the concepts presented from the originals, you'd be fine, but any imagery from film adaptations that is a trademark of the film may still be subject to protection - which means no Green Wicked Witch, and no Red Ruby Slippers. (it's why Winnie The Pooh can now be used by artists at will, but not if he has a red shirt, which is a disney trademark still protected by law).

The first films for Oz were silent films, all of which entered the public domain by 1954. Imagery from the MGM 1939 film (Judy Garland) was renewed in 1967 for a 95 year term, so won't expire until 2035. The Disney film 'Return To Oz' mentioned above wasn't even the first sequel - as 'Journey Back to Oz' (1974) was an animated sequel loosely adapted from one of Baum's original sequels.

Disney owned all the film rights to Baum's books (except the original Wizard Of Oz). Like many of the current live action films we're seeing produced by the mouse house, the Return to Oz film (1985) was an attempt at extending their rights to the stories by producing further derivative works. It was a critical failure and so they abandoned further Oz films. Disney even used Ruby Slippers - which aren't in the original Baum story, but were a creation of the MGM 1939 Judy Garland version, but by 1985 the Ruby Slippers were so synonymous with the story that they paid MGM for the rights to portray the ruby slippers in their film. Likewise the Wicked Witch of the West is portrayed as a particular shade of green, despite her not being green in the books. (And interesting side note, but I learned just recently that the Margaret Hamilton character was portrayed on an episode of Sesame Street - I think back in the 70s, that aired once to much controversy and was buried by the childrens television workshop, and it has only just recently been released to the public after almost 50 years locked in the vault.)

As for the James Franco 'Oz the great and powerful' (2013) by Disney - it was billed as a 'spiritual prequel' to the original 1900 story and loosely based in the world 20 years before the 1939 film. Disney had no permission from MGM or the rights to use the still-protected works or imagery - so the film retained a copyright expert to ensure that the wicked witch's green was distinctly different from the protected shade used by Margaret Hamilton. The Emerald City had to be distinctly different also. 

While WB and Disney didn't directly battle it out over this film, they did file rivalling trademarks to the name 'Oz the Great and Powerful' however the US patent office suspended WB's attempt as Disney had filed a week earlier.

I know. it's tenuous at best but I knew the Disney film was still protected and off-limits to Village for use in the park, but in researching and fact checking this I found a far more interesting story with very complex rules and dates for various different written and film works, and I find this interesting, and thought i'd share it in case others found it interesting. If you did actually read this far - let me know by a reaction to the post!

All that said, clearly the park has licence to the characters in main street, but as we've discovered, IP rights in parks can vary, and roaming characters, and ride themes, and shows can all be very different licences. The copyright on the film adaptations (those for which MOVIE world would likely want to attach) are a little complicated, so I would suggest which characters and what elements are used within the rides and theming would be very carefully curated and controlled.

[WalleyWorld]

3 hours ago, Tricoart said:

What matters is if it's somewhat whimsical, relatively timeless, and perhaps recognisable.

I agree with this. It is a left of field IP that is not particularly relevant with today's youth. But at it's core, Oz is a whimsical, fantasy world, that if done to a very high thematic standard (in combination with the right rides/attractions, retail and themed F&B) could lend itself to a stunning themepark land. Similarly to how Pandora - The World of Avatar has been a huge success, even though the land is based off a largely forgotten 2009 movie (with lack of widespread appeal). Because Pandora doubles down on creating a truly immersive environment with stunning vistas.

The Goddard Group (now called Legacy Entertainment) designed up a whole Wizard of Oz Themepark LINK. If realised as per the concept artwork, it would be stunning.

However, I just can't see VRTP being able to realise such an immersive land. And the attraction mix of only family coasters doesn't particularly suit the Oz theme. A high capacity indoor/outdoor dark ride, a family coaster and a family flat would have been a much better spread. But with many of VRTPs attractions, a ride system is purchased first, and then the theme/story is an afterthought. Usually lending itself to themeing that doesn't really suit, and overall mediocre execution. Which is the complete opposite of themepark design 101.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Luke

[Tricoart]

14 minutes ago, Luke said:

However, I just can't see VRTP being able to realise such an immersive land. And the attraction mix of only family coasters doesn't particularly suit the Oz theme.

I don't have a lot to say about the coasters that hasn't already been said, but my main worry now is the quality of theming as well. The closest to a 'themed land' Australia really has is the Dreamworks Experience section of Dreamworld, which isn't that bad but doesn't add any F&B/Retail and is obviously not VRTP. As far as VRTP goes, the closest they've got is WWF's plaza, which is okay, but as an area is rather small and wouldn't be anything to write home about if it weren't for WWF's mountain (which is good, but something that WoOz's land can't realistically have). I hope it's themed well, and if it is then the rides themselves matter less to me, but I remain sceptical of their ability to do so (especially with their last 'precinct' being the 2+ year delayed, Six Flags-level 'New Atlantis', just quietly).

Edited July 19, 2022 by Tricoart