Wizard of Oz - Movie World Arkham Asylum Replacement

[Natti_amusements]

16 hours ago, Levithian said:

The amount of money spent on set and theming in those calibre of a ride exceeds the full budget village have ever had available for an entire ride. 

Can they do a lot better? hell yes. But you have to be realistic. You aren't going to see hundred million dollar expenditure. They just don't have the turnover to match. 

 I guess I was thinking more hypothetically, cause all those rides are really expensive like you mentioned, all on price tags equivalent to Disney & universal, if not more. I just feel like MW is lacking in immersive experiences, instead opting to buy coasters with next to no theming. The park's starting to feel like a six flags disguised as a world class themepark tbh.

[Ashley]

17 hours ago, Levithian said:

They shouldn't go and rip out a production worthy auditorium like that for a ride. They should put money back into decent shows and reopen the show stage as it was intended and finally do something decent with the HSD area. 

This is what the park really needs. Somewhere to soak up 1000+ people a few times a day. Allows guests to get out of the sun and cool off in the air conditioning during the hottest part of the day. 

 

Hmm, yeah I agree with that. The only reason I recommended adding a ride was because I reckon it’d be more popular than the showcase.
But having a decent show in there to absorb a massive amount of people would be better.

 

 

[Dean Barnett]

I’d like to reiterate - if Gold Coast Movie World would simply copy and paste any of the attractions that are at Abu Dhabi Movie World - things would be a lot better. 

[Naazon]

The old backlot tour would be a best of both worlds. Show off studio sets, absorb large amounts of people and the queue for the tour can be through a showcase to show off other things like costumes ect. 

Could even be a backlot tour similar to backdraft, so save on paying actors wages. Unless it breaks the whole 3m flame argument from the other thread.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

29 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

I’d like to reiterate - if Gold Coast Movie World would simply copy and paste any of the attractions that are at Abu Dhabi Movie World - things would be a lot better. 

And I'd also like to reiterate:

18 hours ago, Levithian said:

The amount of money spent on set and theming in those calibre of a ride exceeds the full budget village have ever had available for an entire ride. 

Can they do a lot better? hell yes. But you have to be realistic. You aren't going to see hundred million dollar expenditure. They just don't have the turnover to match. 

While history has shown that true creative australian theme park attractions are possible without blowing the bank (see Bermuda and LTRR as examples), simply copy pasting an attraction from overseas is generally not within the budget of our parks.

The fact that both of those examples no longer stand is also a testament to the willingness and budgets of our parks being able to cope with the maintenance and upkeep requirements of those attractions long term too.

29 minutes ago, Naazon said:

The old backlot tour would be a best of both worlds. Show off studio sets, absorb large amounts of people and the queue for the tour can be through a showcase to show off other things like costumes ect. 

Could even be a backlot tour similar to backdraft, so save on paying actors wages. Unless it breaks the whole 3m flame argument from the other thread.

I think the issue here is the studios are just too... used. USH can do it because their backlot is so vast that if shooting is occurring on one set, the tour simply diverts to another. Our studio tour is literally nothing but the sound stages, and with some of the bigger productions we've hosted here in AUS in recent years, you simply couldn't offer that experience anytime a big production is in town. (Hint: Theres a reason why they don't use the sound stages for fright nights anymore). A fixed stage show hand in hand with a purpose built showcase facility that can house sets and costumes is the ideal outcome.

[aaronm]

The park could definitely use some kind of "movie making" experience, even if it's not a studio tour-style attraction. Universal's special effects or horror movie makeup shows come to mind. Bollywood Park Dubai has a smaller-scale version of this sort of thing that might be more suited to Movie World. I enjoy the movie showcase but it could definitely be relocated if they wanted to use the theatre for its original purpose.

[Dean Barnett]

1 hour ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

simply copy pasting an attraction from overseas is generally not within the budget of our parks.

It’s so much cheaper than a original creation. 
 

All the content is made. The engineering is complete. The ride system is programmed. The risk assessment / regulatory work has already been half done.
 

The cost savings of everything would be huge. 
 

DW have already seen the savings with ST. 
 

Plus most of the rides they could choose to copy would be a new flagship ride to movie worlds standards. 

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

10 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

It’s so much cheaper than a original creation. 

READ. IT. AGAIN.

Quote

The amount of money spent on set and theming in those calibre of a ride exceeds the full budget village have ever had available for an entire ride. 

However:

11 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

The risk assessment / regulatory work has already been half done.

Just no. See Also: Brogent's attempts at getting SkyVoyager approved under Australian requirements... "in the coming weeks" is famous here for a reason.

12 minutes ago, Dean Barnett said:

DW have already seen the savings with ST. 

Effectively a copy-paste rollercoaster with minimal changes, and it still cost $30Million. A flagship copy darkride is still going to smash that out of the park, and $30Million is about the limit of ride investments here in Aus. 

This isn't fantasyland. its. not. going. to. happen.

[rappa]

1 hour ago, Dean Barnett said:

It’s so much cheaper than a original creation. 
 

All the content is made. The engineering is complete. The ride system is programmed. The risk assessment / regulatory work has already been half done.
 

The cost savings of everything would be huge. 
 

DW have already seen the savings with ST. 
 

Plus most of the rides they could choose to copy would be a new flagship ride to movie worlds standards. 

Why on earth would another park who has spent all these costs just let someone else copy and paste it. 
That’s just not how these things work. 

[Levithian]

7 hours ago, Natti_amusements said:

 I guess I was thinking more hypothetically, cause all those rides are really expensive like you mentioned, all on price tags equivalent to Disney & universal, if not more. I just feel like MW is lacking in immersive experiences, instead opting to buy coasters with next to no theming. The park's starting to feel like a six flags disguised as a world class themepark tbh.

All the rides they have purchased could have extensive theming. The outcome we have is 100% down to the choices made by management. Everything you say is 100% true, it's just that those immersive rides with extensive theming, queue lines and ride areas are vastly more expensive than people realise. We don't have the population and the visitor numbers to Australia to see the sort of attendance figures required to support that kind of expenditure. You're comparing about 5 million across the entire VRTP division (as in, movieworld, wet n wild, seaworld and paradise country), vs say, about 4.5 million for something like Universal Studios Singapore. Prices for entry are very similar to Movie world, but if Movie world was to see those same sort of attendance figures it would mean $150,000,000+ in additional revenue per year just from ticket sales alone, never mind the additional boost to retail sales that would come with it. 

This is ultimately what it comes down to. As I said, they can do better than they have been, especially given the amount of existing theming either missing or not working on a lot of rides, but it's going to be quite some time before we see them willing to spend $60,000,000 (or more) on a single ride. Perhaps never if we don't attract greater tourist numbers and our population doesn't experience a significant growth spurt. 

5 hours ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

.

I think the issue here is the studios are just too... used. USH can do it because their backlot is so vast that if shooting is occurring on one set, the tour simply diverts to another. Our studio tour is literally nothing but the sound stages, and with some of the bigger productions we've hosted here in AUS in recent years, you simply couldn't offer that experience anytime a big production is in town. (Hint: Theres a reason why they don't use the sound stages for fright nights anymore). A fixed stage show hand in hand with a purpose built showcase facility that can house sets and costumes is the ideal outcome.

Village Roadshow Studios are working soundstages, there is next to nothing to make up a back lot as far as set pieces and buildings go. Thats the biggest difference. It completely changes the dynamic and a working studio has security and safety as major concerns which is one of the primary reasons why members of the public will likely never be allowed on site. The benefit in generating revenue for the theme park is a drop in the ocean compared to the money active studios produce. It's not something I could ever see them messing with. Better for people to realise they are really 2 separate entities now. 

A lot of people have this mythical vision of what the studio tour was. There was very little attraction in the studio grounds itself, you had a fairly basic props/wardrobe display you drove past, and maybe a few remnants of set pieces from movies shot there, but the bulk of the tour was in the theme park. All the movie magic stuff was in the sound stage building that now houses superman escape. 

Honestly, imho, tours are dead. The big issues of space aside, the way movies are filmed and produced is light years ahead of anything approaching a manual process guests can experience now. You get a far better experience from interactive rides and attractions. Without sets and a nostalgia draw to your backlot tour, it's just not worth the investment and isn't ultimately going to offer a great experience anymore. You can't build that into movie world because it never existed. 

Edited October 28, 2022 by Levithian

[Naazon]

1 hour ago, Levithian said:

Honestly, imho, tours are dead. The big issues of space aside, the way movies are filmed and produced is light years ahead of anything approaching a manual process guests can experience now. You get a far better experience from interactive rides and attractions. Without sets and a nostalgia draw to your backlot tour, it's just not worth the investment and isn't ultimately going to offer a great experience anymore. You can't build that into movie world because it never existed. 

Thats why a fake tour like Backdraft works well. Its made up to how people imagine movies are made + gives off the cool special effects + it can eat people and get them out of the sun and it can be soundproofed to not disturb the nearby actual studio.

[Natti_amusements]

1 hour ago, Levithian said:

This is ultimately what it comes down to. As I said, they can do better than they have been, especially given the amount of existing theming either missing or not working on a lot of rides, but it's going to be quite some time before we see them willing to spend $60,000,000 (or more) on a single ride.

I totally agree, the parks don’t have the attendance to well support a $60 mil plus ride, and Warner Bros Abu Dhabi probably wasn’t the best comparison. However, there are many great immersive experience in the world that haven’t costed anything that much. Some that come to mind are the shooters at regional parks in the US. 

[Dean Barnett]

4 hours ago, rappa said:

Why on earth would another park who has spent all these costs just let someone else copy and paste it. 

There are 3 clones of Batman within 3 hours of each other in Texas across 2 different park operators. 
 

Why would they let them copy WBAD rides? It’s more profit for them. The venn diagram of people who visit both parks is just two circles, barely touching. 

 

Most of the actual movie/character rights already align so it just makes sense. 

[rappa]

Sigh… ok , sure. Totally makes sense

[Gazza]

An interesting thing I heard once is that no clone is truly a clone.

Any attraction is naturally shaped by the regulations and building codes for where it is originally planned.

So when a clone is built, its never truly identical since everything has to be tweaked. You might find fire exits in one place Don't work in another. Structural calculations might be different. Local materials available. Electrical standards etc.

 

It might make things easier in terms of being able to skip over concept and schematic design and go straight to DD and CD.

 

There might be some small savings, but the idea that you're going to get a 30m Abu Dhabi ride (built by Bangladeshi labourers) for 20m in Aus through "savings" is a bit of a stretch to day the least.

For media, you would save time on the development, but the content creator is still going to charge you money for it because its their IP.

 

 

 

[Natti_amusements]

9 hours ago, Gazza said:

There might be some small savings, but the idea that you're going to get a 30m Abu Dhabi ride (built by Bangladeshi labourers) for 20m in Aus through "savings" is a bit of a stretch to day the least.

 

 

 

I totally forgot about the labour laws in that part of the world, you’d be lucky to build a ride from there for the same price at all

[Dean Barnett]

It really feels like everyone just disagrees with me for the sake of it. We all agree that MW needs a new high capacity, world class family friendly ride - no matter what, this is going to cost millions. 
 

My choice would be a trackless dark ride - first in the southern hemisphere (I think) and all that jazz. 
 

Copying an existing ride will be cheaper which ever way you look at it - but you guys are insisting that that’s a stupid idea? Not sure what’s going on with that. 
 

Heck I’d be happy even if they put Riddlers Revenge (Zamperla Disc’o) in a shed which will provide a different ride experience for the park, high capacity (with adjustable cycle times) and also wet weather safe! You could do Halloween overlays too. 

[Gazza]

Quote

Copying an existing ride will be cheaper which ever way you look at it 

Possibly a little cheaper, but not the point where it becomes affordable if taking the majors.

Most of the cost is going to be the construction, not the design.

See something like Riddlers, that's definitely workable, but Batman Knight Flight or the Abu Dhabi version of JL, probably not.

In terms of trackless, Big Red Car was trackless, but currently operating Kindgom Quest at Legoland Discovery Center Melbourne is trackless.

Edited October 29, 2022 by Gazza

[Natti_amusements]

1 hour ago, Dean Barnett said:

Copying an existing ride will be cheaper which ever way you look at it - but you guys are insisting that that’s a stupid idea? Not sure what’s going on with that. 

I definitely don’t think copying an existing ride is a bad idea, that’s why I mentioned it, but after looking at the Abu Dhabi park i realised its full of mega million dollar attractions on the scale of Disney or universal. The only other Warner bros. Park is in Spain, and it was once a six flags, so they don’t have any non-coasters at are worth copying.

However, Movie Park in Germany would be worth a look at. The studio coaster looks amazing, and would be a perfect addition to the park, and so would the indoor Van Helsing’s coaster, although that’s probably much too similar to scooby doo.

So while copying a ride is always a good cost saving idea, MW is a warner bros park and there aren’t many great options to copy from parks with the same theme

Edited October 29, 2022 by Natti_amusements

[rappa]

3 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

 

It really feels like everyone just disagrees with me for the sake of it

 

People disagree with you because ALL of your ideas and thoughts are not grounded in reality. 

[Levithian]

5 hours ago, Natti_amusements said:

NW is a warner bros park and there aren’t many great options to copy from parks with the same theme

This is actually a common misconception. Its not a warner park and hasnt been since 2006. Village licence the use of the warner bros. name and anything associated with them as far as IP rights and retail sales. 

They dont even have a film distribution agreement with roadshow studios/pictures anymore. So pretty much everything WB you see is being used under licence. IE, they are paying for it. 

Edited October 29, 2022 by Levithian

[Dean Barnett]

 

3 hours ago, Levithian said:

So pretty much everything WB you see is being used under licence. IE, they are paying for it. 

Which is the same arragement, for example, Six Flags.

[Natti_amusements]

11 hours ago, Levithian said:

This is actually a common misconception. Its not a warner park and hasnt been since 2006. Village licence the use of the warner bros. name and anything associated with them as far as IP rights and retail sales. 

They dont even have a film distribution agreement with roadshow studios/pictures anymore. So pretty much everything WB you see is being used under licence. IE, they are paying for it. 

That would make sense, as many parks pay for licensing rights to use IP based property, and tbh when I said that I didn’t mean that Warner Bros. owned that park, but rather that it was a Warner Bros. themed park. so for the sake of copying a ride from another park, it would only work if another park with Warner IP had a good ride that was worth Village trying to be able to copy which there isn’t.

[Slick]

9 hours ago, Dean Barnett said:

Which is the same arrangement, for example, Six Flags.

The underlying assumption there is that there's a cost saving from Six Flags building the same thing over and over (and that the savings are in the theming), but the reality is the cost savings is with the deal brokered with the OEM (e.g. B&M building 4x inverted coasters).

[themagician]