8 hours ago, pin142 said:

Fire was at around 6pm after the park had closed for the day. The roof inside is still "charcoal black" to this day.

I noticed this the other day too. The old YouTube looks like it had some form of false wooden beam roof too, which was never replaced. All the iron work at the top was black/rusty looking. Kinda fits the theme but I would have thought it would be better to paint it to protect it a little better.

I seem to remember from our family trip in the early 2000's (I'm thinking 2001? Mammoth Falls was open but I can't remember Scooby being there) when you went up the first lift hill before the backwards drop, there was a scene where you got blasted out with a shotgun or something to that nature. Sparklers were definitely in there, was a little disappointed when they weren't there on my next visit, but I wasn't aware of the fire at the time.

10 hours ago, pin142 said:

Fire was at around 6pm after the park had closed for the day. The roof inside is still "charcoal black" to this day.

Thanks for that, I thought I was after the park closed, but I wasn’t sure.

Never noticed the roof being black, I’ll definitely have a look next time I’m on the ride.

9 hours ago, Ogre said:

(the older scene with the exploding barrel was so much better).

 

I don’t remember it, but I have heard of the exploding and or expanding barrel.

Here’s another interesting question, if it wasn’t for the fire do you think MW would still have the sparks? 

1 hour ago, Ashley said:

Here’s another interesting question, if it wasn’t for the fire do you think MW would still have the sparks? 

It's very "how long is a piece of string"... 

The incident prompted a review and removal of effects that could cause a fire. The ride was neutered for some time as they simply removed and panelled over anything taken out instead of replacing it with a safer alternative. 

The thing is that health and safety is an ever-changing beast, and - if you consider everything else in the world bar that one incident continued on the same way - then you can probably guarantee it would have been identified as an unacceptable risk of fire in other risk assessments (especially post TRRR) and ultimately removed, changed or replaced.

I think though the difference is that the fire forced immediate removal, which is why we saw such a neutered offering afterwards, whereas had it been flagged as part of an assessment, review or refurb, it potentially would have had something nicer replace it immediately.

Controversial opinion: the original, while better than what's there currently, wasn't that much better. It didn't really change the ride that much.

1 hour ago, joz said:

Controversial opinion: the original, while better than what's there currently, wasn't that much better. It didn't really change the ride that much.

I wouldn't say it's that controversial, to be honest. The removed effects were essentially 'icing'. If the ride opened day one without it, nobody would say boo. If you rode it without ever knowing the old effects, you probably don't take any notice. 

The lift hill, with it's anti rollback dogs (old boats) etc was a noisy bastard and you couldn't really hear anything, but the spark devices and the pepper's ghost gave you something to focus on while you were lifted up 'tin shed hill'. Without these to look at, you look elsewhere and start noticing the CCTV camera. the electrical runs. the maintenance accessways, etc. 

These missing items weren't much, but they were an example of putting something in, because you can that adds to the show and spectacle and distracts the rider from the obvious machinery they're sitting on top of.

West is an example of an older time, when you didn't spin a wheel for the ride type, another for the theme, and call it a world class attraction - West had a lot of thought and detail put into it (that was subsequently bastardised trying to bandwagon onto the latest Will Smith hotness without really trying), and change to the ride or not, I miss it, because it was an example of what you can really accomplish, rather than slapping a logo on a plastic lunchbox and calling it a day.

 

6 hours ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

It's very "how long is a piece of string"... 

The incident prompted a review and removal of effects that could cause a fire. The ride was neutered for some time as they simply removed and panelled over anything taken out instead of replacing it with a safer alternative. 

The thing is that health and safety is an ever-changing beast, and - if you consider everything else in the world bar that one incident continued on the same way - then you can probably guarantee it would have been identified as an unacceptable risk of fire in other risk assessments (especially post TRRR) and ultimately removed, changed or replaced.

I think though the difference is that the fire forced immediate removal, which is why we saw such a neutered offering afterwards, whereas had it been flagged as part of an assessment, review or refurb, it potentially would have had something nicer replace it immediately.

Thanks, that makes sense. 

I don't know how good it would look, but putting in a screen or projection that shows the sparks would be cool. And since I'd be basically computer generated they probably wouldn't look like an angle grinder.

But how I said it may look like crap.

8 hours ago, Ashley said:

Thanks for that, I thought I was after the park closed, but I wasn’t sure.

Never noticed the roof being black, I’ll definitely have a look next time I’m on the ride.

I don’t remember it, but I have heard of the exploding and or expanding barrel.

Here’s another interesting question, if it wasn’t for the fire do you think MW would still have the sparks? 

I don't think because a lot of the other effects don't seem to work so i don't think they would go to the effort of fixing them and keep them going because now a days it feels like they cant be bothered to fix them e.g. Scooby doo and the justice league were both in a terrible state when i last went on them

The ride needs millions invested in it to bring it back up to the gem it could be. 
Doesn’t seem like that’s on the cards at present. 

1 hour ago, rappa said:

 
Doesn’t seem like that’s on the cards at present. 

You never know, if you cross your fingers, and say pretty please, they might do something.

I remember being impressed with the effect as a kiddo. Might be misremembering but I think the spark moved along with the boat after the initial burst. It was quite a convincing effect.

14 hours ago, Ashley said:

I don't know how good it would look, but putting in a screen or projection that shows the sparks would be cool. And since I'd be basically computer generated they probably wouldn't look like an angle grinder.

There are other practical effects that would look 1000% better and not be a fire risk, things like 'cold sparks' or properly insulating the area of the effect.

12 minutes ago, Naazon said:

There are other practical effects that would look 1000% better and not be a fire risk, things like 'cold sparks' or properly insulating the area of the effect.

Cold sparks are still a fire risk. And it isn't possible to insulate the area without enclosing it in a box (which of course then ruins the effect). No - I miss the attention to detail that they represent, but I don't want them to come back.

1 hour ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

But I don't want them to come back.

Just out of curiosity, since you don’t want them to come back, what would you prefer in their place if anything?

Cold sparks are gross and cover everything in crap

2 hours ago, rappa said:

Cold sparks are gross and cover everything in crap

100% this. this is exactly what the WWF final lift hill should be trying to be. 

Maybe less reliant on the smoke blasts as anything consumable is going to tap out and has the potential to be neglected \ burn dry, but the light effects themselves (perhaps with strobes at opportune moments rather than smoke) would be long lasting provided they were done right.

Hopefully someone in-park sees what this could be.

I love how disney have created their fire/fuse effects starting with a real simple led flame flicker combined with high quality led chasers for the fuses. Shows that it doesn't have to be high tech to look good, you just need to use quality components to start with and MAINTAIN them. They must have entire departments just devoted to repairing/maintaining all the effects they use in their theming. 

Coldfx aren't all crap now. The technology (and powders) has gotten a lot better and there is nowhere near the residue they used to produce for the volume of sparks. Especially if you are only triggering it in bursts. When you combine them with foggers you can get a pretty decent flame effect too. 

You could replicate the old spark effect with a spark fall machine. Same effect but directs the sparks down instead of upwards so you can hang them. 

Personally, I think a few jets up the lift would be better placed. They produce their own cannon/explosion sound when they go off, it's not excessive, but it would be a nice sound effect in an otherwise already noisy lift building anyway. 
 

Another cool machine DJpower have is a hybrid fog that combines it with a Co2 jet, so you can actually cannon smoke/fog effects (especially for short intervals) instead of it looking like a spray that builds in volume like normal fog/smokers. 

You get the blast/range of the Co2 machines, but the volume of smoke/fog machines. Those smoke effects in thunder mountain rail road are Co2 cannons for example. Hybrid ones allow the same density/volume of smoke, but use a lot less Co2.

Edited October 21, 20223 yr by Levithian

Forgot to say, the problem with spark machines is they are all designed with time intervals based on the size/type of granules you are using. How they work is, refill pouches come with NFC tags (in a card) you swipe on the machine when you fill it from a pouch each time. It sets the run time on the machine automatically and will ONLY run for this interval, regardless of how much powder is left in the machine. This means once the time limit is over, the machine switches off and won't run until a new swipe card is used. The cards are one use only, the data is erased on the tag rendering it useless when it is used, so you can't just keep swiping it on. 

What you have to do is open the machine, remove the remaining unused powder, refill, then swipe on a new card for another run (say for example, 15 mins). It's not just a form of safety control, but its also a design restraint as the powder needs to be kept dry as it will absorb moisture and clump together and block the machine, causing issues. So you can't just fill the machine with a days worth of powder, connect it to a DMX channel and have your show control run it all day. It's why you don't really see them in continuous use/settings. 

Spakultors suck - and they can definately start fires.

Isopar based flames would have the best effect - fog + lights would definately be the safest.

It's like saying a piece of glass can start a fire. 

They are considered safe for indoor use, especially in a commercial setting if you follow the hazard warnings. If you take one, load it with the biggest granules it can use and direct it at a flammable source, you are asking for trouble. The sparks are still generated at over 600 degrees celsius, so shoot enough of them at a close flammable source and they will likely set fire to it. 

What makes them "safe" compared to other traditional pyrofx is not if they can set fire to things, but that they have no fuel source, or stored potential energy source. The powder is not flammable, there is no accelerant or oxidiser that will fuel flames. This is the big difference. Especially when Joe average purchases one for $12 from china without training or a licence. You can follow the instructions, understand the hazard warnings, and you aren't going to set fire to your neighbourhood. 

Those spark machines are awful!

They cover everything in the crap they produce and are completely impractical for a theme park environment and duty cycle. 
Anything with DJ Power on it has no place in a theme park, it is low end stuff. 
 

CO2 likewise, way impractical due to volume (ie cost) of product used, plus the handling, air monitoring, etc. 

 

This is often a problem in Australia, we don’t have the market volume to create enough of a professional niche that just does theme parks. So you end up with general production people selling products and ideas that just won’t go the distance, and parks paying for the capital purchase without the long term maintenance also factored in. 
This is slowly getting better though than it used to be. 

Edited October 22, 20223 yr by rappa

You know DJPower is TOPCAT right?

5 hours ago, Levithian said:

You can follow the instructions, understand the hazard warnings, and you aren't going to set fire to your neighbourhood. 

Same with isopar flames. Once you cut power - it's completely safe. 

1 hour ago, Levithian said:

You know DJPower is TOPCAT right?

See previous statement. 
 

1 hour ago, Dean Barnett said:

Same with isopar flames. Once you cut power - it's completely safe

Isopar is actual flame. You can’t be using it inside a themed tunnel in proximity to riders. 

16 minutes ago, rappa said:

Isopar is actual flame. You can’t be using it inside a themed tunnel in proximity to riders. 

You can. Legally you could fire them 1 meter vertical and 3 meters laterally from people. 
 

Like at the NRL. 

Mate if you think you could fire them in something like the Wild West lift hill I’m glad you’re not working in the park.