Jungle Rush Coaster

[themagician]

6 hours ago, Whombex said:

I am surprised people are being so blasé about these generated images.

I don’t like the situation either, but whether you’re being biased or not, the technology now exists, it’s only going to get better and people will sadly be loosing their jobs. It’s the unfortunate reality in most cases.

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

13 hours ago, Tricoart said:

Looking at them closer, these images specifically are pretty obviously AI generated, with some of the ’sketch’ images having weird parts/details that could show they’ve at least been partially generated, too.

And, assuming that they indeed are, the extent of their AI usage in the project could go any degree further than this, which worries me & severely lowers my expectations/anticipation for the project in general.

They haven’t explicitly stated their AI usage, which (arguably) makes it worse, as they were essentially contracted for their creative expertise, and have never stated they’ve used AI during this.

The plane i'll give you. that's a mangled monstrosity that is very clearly 'not' a plane. The other two images, while certainly digitally rendered, don't have any of the usual hallmark artefacts that I would associate with AI generated content. I'd like to explore that some more - can anyone else point out the specifics of these other two images that make them genuine wholly AI generated?

9 hours ago, Tricoart said:

*3 images, at least. I’m not forgetting the other posted images (I actually directly mention them as instances of AI not needing to be used in an earlier post), nor am I claiming that Earthstory using AI means that the entire project has definitively become riddled with it. For what seems like too many times to count: The fact that Earthstory, a creatively driven company who was contracted for that exact reason, used AI in their part of the process at all means that it’s just not known where they’ve drawn the line (pun somewhat intended) at its’ usage, and that reflects poorly on their part of the process as a whole IMO.

And, for the last reiteration before I give up once i’m inevitably misinterpreted again, this is all about Earthstory’s part in the process. Which was, according to the website, effectively to ‘moodboard’ the project for Pico Play to then flesh out into the actual areas’ design that we’re getting. So, no, it’s not outdated, it’s reflecting their early part in the process. And no, I’ve never said the entire project was done by AI, only that Earthstory’s involvement is now soured by specifically their use of it. If you want to demean what I’m saying, please actually look at what I’m saying next time.

So you're not a designer or an engineer, and since you're here its fair to assume that you're an enthusiast that wants good things from the parks - and yet this outrage over the methods they use to deliver them - I just don't understand what the issue is. What negative effect does it have on your experience in the attraction?

Are you up in arms that other genuine creative agencies are using photoshop? are you protesting pixar for Renderman instead of inking and painting glass and cellulose cartoon cells and doing it the way the 'real' artists did it back in the 1930's?

Technology has progressed, those who embrace it will flourish, and those who shun it will die off. 

Stop being such a luddite.

7 hours ago, Whombex said:

I am surprised people are being so blasé about these generated images.

Concept artists are having their art stolen to feed the generator software.

Concept artists are losing work to image generators that were built on stolen and copyrighted art.
 

We do not know the AI engine that was used for this. We do not know it's source material. For all we know, the engine has been built on art already owned by the builder. Many organisations are building their own AI databases using solely in-house materials, or materials that are public domain. If there is a genuine case to be made that this company has used an engine that makes use of other people's copyrighted works, let me know, and i'll grab my pitchfork. Until then, i'm not going to schlep around being bitter about "how much of this new ride has been soured" by a few early concept sketches and a mood board.

[Tricoart]

33 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

The plane i'll give you. that's a mangled monstrosity that is very clearly 'not' a plane. The other two images, while certainly digitally rendered, don't have any of the usual hallmark artefacts that I would associate with AI generated content. I'd like to explore that some more - can anyone else point out the specifics of these other two images that make them genuine wholly AI generated?

Vintage Car Image: 

Totally realistic, humanly designed toucans.

 

Watercolour (styled) Temple Image:

Person? Second Waterfall? Rock? We may never know.

Pretty sure that isn't how physics works.

 

33 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Technology has progressed, those who embrace it will flourish, and those who shun it will die off. 

Stop being such a luddite.

This, whether you know it or not, is the exact same sentiment stated by those who are actively, knowingly, and purposefully stomping over actual artists via their AI models/images, and more often than not doing it proudly in the name of efficiency (replying to someone's original, meaningful art pieces by feeding it into a model & generating something kind of similar at first glance, then gloating about how it only took them 5 minutes to do so & that their method of actually attempting to express human emotions & feelings is archaic & dying is something I've come across way too often already). It's existence doesn't mean anyone who dislikes it should just need to 'get with the times' 'cause it's gonna steal their livelihoods anyway, that is a monumentally bad sentiment to hold. And, once again, it's especially bad to see that the company relying on it in this instance is effectively an art/design firm, contracted to make art & designs, meaning it's usage directly correlates to less opportunities for their artists & designers, eventually turning into those artists & designers losing their jobs. Which is not a singularly Earthstory thing, it's been happening & will keep happening the more this plague spreads without any control or regulation, this is just the first instance that it has so obviously infected the amusement park industry (at least, the Australian subset of it).

Edited July 16 by Tricoart

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

The technology isn't the problem.

Using the technology improperly is a problem.

[jjuttup]

On 16/07/2024 at 10:34 AM, Gazza said:

Wait is that Paddlepop Lion?

[Tricoart]

41 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

The technology isn't the problem.

Using the technology improperly is a problem.

When there is no line drawn for where & how this technology can be used, and therefore it is rampantly destroying jobs (not to mention making objective criminal behavior significantly easier for anyone to do) in a matter of minutes without the perpetrators needing to disclose it's use or face repercussions for using it in those destructive ways, the technology is the problem.

I really don't see why y'all feel the need to defend the company so rampantly, you seem to at least agree to the fact that it's destroying creative jobs, so unless you somehow believe that'll have a positive effect, it should be rather obvious how a company such as Earthstory turning to it is an open example of that uncontrollably spreading, and/or at least understand how some would believe it's a negative turn for Earthstory to have taken.

Edited July 17 by Tricoart

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

lol.

And guns kill people. And cars kill people. And knives kill people. And peanuts kill people.

Regulations have a bad way of lagging behind technology. many countries are still struggling with how to handle crypto currency and rideshare. Hell - Japan is still using FAX machines and many places in Japan don't accept VISA cards, let alone ApplePay.

But many people have embraced these technologies and they aren't going to go away just because people are misusing them. But - the misuse needs to happen in order for authorities to recognise the need for regulation. (go check out the Napster case for example)

Don't campaign for cancellation - campaign for regulation. 

[Themepark Enthusist]

1 minute ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

lol.

And guns kill people. And cars kill people. And knives kill people. And peanuts kill people.

Regulations have a bad way of lagging behind technology. many countries are still struggling with how to handle crypto currency and rideshare. Hell - Japan is still using FAX machines and many places in Japan don't accept VISA cards, let alone ApplePay.

But many people have embraced these technologies and they aren't going to go away just because people are misusing them. But - the misuse needs to happen in order for authorities to recognise the need for regulation. (go check out the Napster case for example)

Don't campaign for cancellation - campaign for regulation. 

I agree 100% well said!

[Tricoart]

32 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

Don't campaign for cancellation - campaign for regulation. 

‘When there is no line drawn for where & how this technology can be used… the technology is the problem’

Or, phrased differently: Until there is regulation, the technology is the problem.

Which is quite literally what I have been saying, it’s being used and causing problems, but stating that is against innovation, discrediting the company, or making a mountain out of a molehill. And, until there is legistation that hinders these companies from doing all of this so rampantly, all that can be done is criticise its use when it’s used, especially when the company using it is selling creative expertise, the main industry/group being affected by AI.

32 minutes ago, DaptoFunlandGuy said:

And guns kill people. And cars kill people.

Both of which being other prime examples of needing (at least) significantly stricter regulations, but not getting them because it’s anti-consumer or anti-innovation, which is again the exact same sentiment you’re putting on AI.

All I did to start this was point out that Earthstory used AI, and them being the company that they are, selling the service that they’re selling, turning to that is a bad sign for their involvement in projects, and a bad look for them as a company.

Edited July 17 by Tricoart

[Brad2912]

1 hour ago, jjuttup said:

Wait is that Paddlepop Lion?

Had that exact same question and kept scrolling to see if there was an answer… but nope! 
 

[Tricoart]

21 minutes ago, Brad2912 said:

Had that exact same question and kept scrolling to see if there was an answer… but nope! 
 

If you must know, yes it is. The ride behind it (Max Adventures Master Thai) seems to be loosely connected to a linked movie/show series they did for a while, and Algida (different name for Streets, who do the Paddle Pops here) are the park's main sponsor (their ferris wheel has/had their logo at the center as well, like 7 on the wheel in brisbane).

Edited July 17 by Tricoart

[themagician]

2 hours ago, Tricoart said:

All I did to start this was point out that Earthstory used AI, and them being the company that they are, selling the service that they’re selling, turning to that is a bad sign for their involvement in projects, and a bad look for them as a company.

I haven’t heard of Earthstory before this project, but I get the feeling you don’t like them very much?

[Narra]

3 minutes ago, themagician said:

I haven’t heard of Earthstory before this project

They have been involved heavily in both Dreamworld and Village parks for over a decade, they even reference Parkz on their New Atlantis page

[Tricoart]

21 minutes ago, themagician said:

I haven’t heard of Earthstory before this project, but I get the feeling you don’t like them very much?

I don’t like what they have done on this project judging by what is known of their involvement, and view their company less positively than I did before (they’ve worked on a lot of projects for VRTP & Ardent in the past, which were generally good) 

Edited July 17 by Tricoart

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

13 minutes ago, Narra said:

they even reference Parkz on their New Atlantis page

they've cherry picked the best parts of the article Richard posted Great ride, great theming, confusing operations: Leviathan wooden roller coaster opens at Sea World | Parkz - Theme Parks

[New display name]

Why bother with a separate company for the concept, when Pico Play already have super talented staff, who do this stuff every day.  I don't understand the double up.

Edited July 17 by New display name

[themagician]

12 minutes ago, New display name said:

I don't understand the double up.

Might put into perspective how massive this project and the investment is. Potentially they’ve needed multiple design contractors and fabricators to be spread across the land and its attractions.

[Themepark Enthusist]

17 minutes ago, New display name said:

Why bother with a separate company for the concept, when Pico Play already have super talented staff, who do this stuff every day.  I don't understand the double up.

I'm under the impression that Earthstory developed the story behind it, and Pico designed the actual land on how to beat tell the story 

[TV15]

1 hour ago, Themepark Enthusist said:

I'm under the impression that Earthstory developed the story behind it, and Pico designed the actual land on how to beat tell the story 

Earthstory's roles:
THEMING MASTER PLANNING / STORY, CULTURE & CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT / AUDIO-VISUAL MASTER PLANNING / CREATIVE DOCUMENTATION & VISUALISATIONS / 3D MASSING & SCHEMATIC DESIGN

Theming Construction:
PICO PLAY

All from here: https://earthstory.com.au/portfolio-dreamworld-jungle-rush.html

[Tricoart]

Yeah, it was their job to do initial planning/concepting, and Pico’s to turn that into the area itself.

Quote

Upon delivery of Earthstory's Visitor Experience package, Pico Play commenced the CAD and construction process to bring our conceptual designs to fruition.

On other projects (New Atlantis, Penguin Encounter, Arkham, Green Lantern, etc), their list of roles generally include ‘Creative Direction’, ‘Construction’, and/or ‘Project Management’, and those’d be the instances where they’re the sole design/creative team hired for the project, unlike here.

Edited July 17 by Tricoart

[Jesse_xaivier]

8 hours ago, Tricoart said:

All I did to start this was point out that Earthstory used AI, and them being the company that they are, selling the service that they’re selling, turning to that is a bad sign for their involvement in projects, and a bad look for them as a company.

Is it not a possibility that earth story weren't able to post any of their actual art as per agreements with Dreamworld until later agreed dates, so these were generated to post with a preliminary write up to put on the portfolio? This is a company that are masters at what they do, I'm sure there are some amazing art works done by them, just not ones that we are seeing/have access to.

[wikiverse]

12 hours ago, Tricoart said:

This, whether you know it or not, is the exact same sentiment stated by those who are actively, knowingly, and purposefully stomping over actual artists via their AI models/images,

This is actually not correct.  These are mood board images.  In this particular instance AI has replaced random photos and screenshots pulled from the internet.  I work in a creative job, and no one has been stomped on or replaced through the specific use of AI in this way.

A mood board is not the creative vision, or the finished work.  It is simply a collection of images to show someone else the general idea of what is in your head so they can agree to it before you actually engage the artists/designers/engineers to do the work.

I don't really understand or share your outrage because I do understand the creative process.  All that AI has replaced here is some random photos from google images, some screenshots from movies, and at worst some stock photos from Getty which would have been obtained as comps (for free) anyway.  That's it. 

No one was engaging artists to put together a mood board in any creative field.  This isn't architecture where they're putting out 3D renders.  If anything AI has given them a tool to better communicate the look and feel they want without having to just show photos of what has been done before, and for that reason it will make the end result more original, more creative, more detailed and less of a knock-off of existing work.

Exactly no one has been put out of work or disrespected or 'stomped on' because of the use of these images, because they're just replacing random photos that someone would have pulled from google images, slapped into a mood board to get the go-ahead from DW to actually start designing and creating.

20 minutes ago, Jesse_xaivier said:

Is it not a possibility that earth story weren't able to post any of their actual art as per agreements with Dreamworld until later agreed dates, so these were generated to post with a preliminary write up to put on the portfolio?

A few of us have been saying this for a while.  There is no way DW want all of the story/art released before the ride opens.  After the ride opens, Earthstory will just use the photos/videos of the finished product.

[Tricoart]

47 minutes ago, Jesse_xaivier said:

Is it not a possibility that earth story weren't able to post any of their actual art as per agreements with Dreamworld until later agreed dates, so these were generated to post with a preliminary write up to put on the portfolio? This is a company that are masters at what they do, I'm sure there are some amazing art works done by them, just not ones that we are seeing/have access to.

If that were the case, looking at the site on the Wayback Machine, it has previously had a segment dedicated to hinting at things they're working on that they can't show off just yet, and their most recent park project before this (New Atlantis) only seems to have got it's own page when Vortex was constructed & operational, and they could get their own physical images to fill out the page at the time (granted, New Atlantis was something they solely designed, so physical images would more-or-less reflect the work that they did for it, whereas physical Rivertown images mightn't). So, in the best case scenario that AI has only been used on their listing & nowhere else, and everything that they've supplied to Pico was never tainted by it anywhere in their pipeline, they still chose using it over not using it.

Also, aside from the many things they've worked on before this that were just fine without bringing AI into it, I'll also (re)mention the concept art that Dreamworld themselves have shared, the more likely to be human-made art on their page that are at least early drafts of the entirety of Jungle Rush's ride building & sketched theming elements for Murrisippi, and the concept art for WoO that the individual artist shared well before the details in those artworks were announced by MW.

26 minutes ago, wikiverse said:

No one was engaging artists to put together a mood board in any creative field.  This isn't architecture where they're putting out 3D renders.  If anything AI has given them a tool to better communicate the look and feel they want without having to just show photos of what has been done before, and for that reason it will make the end result more original, more creative, more detailed and less of a knock-off of existing work.

So is it being used on the project or not, then? 'Cause what you're describing here is their exact involvement in the project, to 'communicate the look and feel they want'. Also, saying that AI, which is fundamentally a program fed other people's work to spit out something similar that also vaguely matches the prompt it's been given, would cause something to not be a ripoff of someone else's work, is very ironic.

26 minutes ago, wikiverse said:

I don't really understand or share your outrage because I do understand the creative process.  All that AI has replaced here is some random photos from google images, some screenshots from movies, and at worst some stock photos from Getty which would have been obtained as comps (for free) anyway.  That's it. 

Must be some pretty accurate stock photos that didn't influence the progression of the areas' theme in any direct way, then.

Like, even if the AI image of the car was generated afterwards to look like the car that's seen in the actual concept art (as would the plane and the temple have been in this scenario), images had already been publicly released well before the page on their site was made (and, for the temple, more detailed concepts are directly on the same page), so their generation would have been completely unnecessary. 

Unless, of course, these artworks were done by someone else further down the line, using the mockups that they had been supplied, after having to turn them into a more realistic idea of what the area itself could look like.

Edited July 17 by Tricoart

[DaptoFunlandGuy]

Ok dude, we get it. Nothing anybody says is going to change your view. 

Put down the drum.

[Ashley Jeffery]

Jeez two pages of crap